| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| John Beagle |
Posted - 04/18/2009 : 3:15:58 PM
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 11:42 PM
To: john@mainstreetmonroe.com
Subject: Sent From The Voice by Bob Kelley
Hello John Beagle
You received the following message from: Bob Kelley (killertruc@yahoo.com)
At: http://www.mainstreetmonroe.com/voice/
the recommendation is being made to remove your link from the City web site. Several of us are extremely offended by your actions.
|
| 50 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| No money |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 9:06:42 PM
Most people will only click on an ad by their choice unless maybe it happens to be an ad that moves all over the place i.e. the Circuit City ad that use to be on this site, then it could be clicked by mistake. Personally I hate the ad's, all of them and I don't click on them, but I will click on the savebutler.org just because some people insisted on giving John a hard time about having it on MSM which is his choice if he chooses.quote:
[i]Originally posted by JacobTyler[/i]
[br]I can not name one person here who clicks on those ads by choice. If you do, please correct me. If you do it on a daily basis, though... not sure I really want to know 
|
| JacobTyler |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 3:52:56 PM
I can not name one person here who clicks on those ads by choice. If you do, please correct me. If you do it on a daily basis, though... not sure I really want to know |
| summerlover |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 10:30:41 AM
CW, you're a nut!
quote:
[i]Originally posted by ClarkWestern1[/i]
[br]Oh no you don't! Don't start posting rational and logical solutions-that NEVER works on here!!!
|
| ClarkWestern1 |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 09:23:50 AM
Oh no you don't! Don't start posting rational and logical solutions-that NEVER works on here!!! |
| justwatching |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 09:21:03 AM
If the city and others really think that the SaveButler.org ad is a 'problem', why don't they purchase an ad on the site linking to a page that explains why the coke plant is bad. I'm not sure what an ad costs, but I'm sure isn't only pennies compared to the hundreds of thousands of dollars currently being spent to fight the thing. |
| summerlover |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 07:45:33 AM
Looks like the link is still on the city website. What happened? |
| JacobTyler |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 12:36:50 AM
quote:
[i]Originally posted by No money[/i]
[br]Well said, or, a person can change the site on a PC the same as one can change a station on the TV if one don't like what they see.quote:
[i]Originally posted by Matt_Steele[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by JacobTyler[/i]
[br]It's all in the demographics. Putting an ad in front of the wrong audience is bad business. Refer to my post above.
You go to a tech blog, you expect hardware/software ads. Go to a romance website, expect ads for other romance sites and such. Game forum, games and game related peripherals in the ads.
Go to a Monroe site, see an ad that is, frankly, anti Monroe. That's against the trend.
And before I get accused of more negativity, I just like to point out I count it as I see it.
While I agree with your original assumption about putting ads in front of the wrong audience, I think you find that more true for television than the internet. For example there are quite a few political blogs that have advertisements for the complete opposite viewpoints.
Regardless, I just wanted to say that while the Council can certainly do whatever they wish on this issue, I honestly think that Bob Kelley is making a big deal out of really nothing.
I'm just not sure how much influence or impact that ad is going to be having. Are there statistics to show that people who visit this site have been goign to that website and signing the petition or giving money to that cause? Even still, so what? Regardless of whatever position you took on that issue you were bound to see backlash.
I think that removing all external links from the Monroe website is a bad idea too. Monroe is a small community and benefits from having that sense of community and a place to communicate. People who are new to Monroe or visit the city website might find it very useful and beneficial to find online communities where they can learn more about their fellow neighbors and what is going on formally and informally in the city. I think the Council is definitely overreacting. You want to fight the coke plant, fight the coke plant. Don't squelch out useful community forums because of an advertisement on the website. (it would be different if MSM was explicitly endorsing a position).
As can whoever has control over the city website links. They might have a bigger fist in this case, though.
Who has more to lose?
And has any action been taken yet? |
| No money |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 12:30:05 AM
Well said, or, a person can change the site on a PC the same as one can change a station on the TV if one don't like what they see.quote:
[i]Originally posted by Matt_Steele[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by JacobTyler[/i]
[br]It's all in the demographics. Putting an ad in front of the wrong audience is bad business. Refer to my post above.
You go to a tech blog, you expect hardware/software ads. Go to a romance website, expect ads for other romance sites and such. Game forum, games and game related peripherals in the ads.
Go to a Monroe site, see an ad that is, frankly, anti Monroe. That's against the trend.
And before I get accused of more negativity, I just like to point out I count it as I see it.
While I agree with your original assumption about putting ads in front of the wrong audience, I think you find that more true for television than the internet. For example there are quite a few political blogs that have advertisements for the complete opposite viewpoints.
Regardless, I just wanted to say that while the Council can certainly do whatever they wish on this issue, I honestly think that Bob Kelley is making a big deal out of really nothing.
I'm just not sure how much influence or impact that ad is going to be having. Are there statistics to show that people who visit this site have been goign to that website and signing the petition or giving money to that cause? Even still, so what? Regardless of whatever position you took on that issue you were bound to see backlash.
I think that removing all external links from the Monroe website is a bad idea too. Monroe is a small community and benefits from having that sense of community and a place to communicate. People who are new to Monroe or visit the city website might find it very useful and beneficial to find online communities where they can learn more about their fellow neighbors and what is going on formally and informally in the city. I think the Council is definitely overreacting. You want to fight the coke plant, fight the coke plant. Don't squelch out useful community forums because of an advertisement on the website. (it would be different if MSM was explicitly endorsing a position).
|
| HBG |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 12:13:31 AM
quote:
[i]Originally posted by No money[/i]
[br]It may not be news to you or me but it may be to some others that haven't been around here long or to others that may not pay much attention..quote:
[i]Originally posted by Mindi Dishman[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by No money[/i]
[br]I was "told" will not say by whom that someone on council could "possibly" be eyeing the Mayor's spot.quote:
[i]Originally posted by biglaw[/i]
[br]That would be perfect timing, a good possibility that either I or someone I know will run, I'm waiting on the Mayor's spot.... lol
Yeah, like THAT'S news
I guess I should have added the  |
| Matt_Steele |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 11:29:54 PM
quote:
[i]Originally posted by JacobTyler[/i]
[br]It's all in the demographics. Putting an ad in front of the wrong audience is bad business. Refer to my post above.
You go to a tech blog, you expect hardware/software ads. Go to a romance website, expect ads for other romance sites and such. Game forum, games and game related peripherals in the ads.
Go to a Monroe site, see an ad that is, frankly, anti Monroe. That's against the trend.
And before I get accused of more negativity, I just like to point out I count it as I see it.
While I agree with your original assumption about putting ads in front of the wrong audience, I think you find that more true for television than the internet. For example there are quite a few political blogs that have advertisements for the complete opposite viewpoints.
Regardless, I just wanted to say that while the Council can certainly do whatever they wish on this issue, I honestly think that Bob Kelley is making a big deal out of really nothing.
I'm just not sure how much influence or impact that ad is going to be having. Are there statistics to show that people who visit this site have been goign to that website and signing the petition or giving money to that cause? Even still, so what? Regardless of whatever position you took on that issue you were bound to see backlash.
I think that removing all external links from the Monroe website is a bad idea too. Monroe is a small community and benefits from having that sense of community and a place to communicate. People who are new to Monroe or visit the city website might find it very useful and beneficial to find online communities where they can learn more about their fellow neighbors and what is going on formally and informally in the city. I think the Council is definitely overreacting. You want to fight the coke plant, fight the coke plant. Don't squelch out useful community forums because of an advertisement on the website. (it would be different if MSM was explicitly endorsing a position). |
| No money |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 9:34:49 PM
It may not be news to you or me but it may be to some others that haven't been around here long or to others that may not pay much attention..quote:
[i]Originally posted by Mindi Dishman[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by No money[/i]
[br]I was "told" will not say by whom that someone on council could "possibly" be eyeing the Mayor's spot.quote:
[i]Originally posted by biglaw[/i]
[br]That would be perfect timing, a good possibility that either I or someone I know will run, I'm waiting on the Mayor's spot.... lol
Yeah, like THAT'S news
|
| HBG |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 5:08:11 PM
quote:
[i]Originally posted by No money[/i]
[br]I was "told" will not say by whom that someone on council could "possibly" be eyeing the Mayor's spot.quote:
[i]Originally posted by biglaw[/i]
[br]That would be perfect timing, a good possibility that either I or someone I know will run, I'm waiting on the Mayor's spot.... lol
Yeah, like THAT'S news |
| No money |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 5:02:45 PM
I was "told" will not say by whom that someone on council could "possibly" be eyeing the Mayor's spot.quote:
[i]Originally posted by biglaw[/i]
[br]That would be perfect timing, a good possibility that either I or someone I know will run, I'm waiting on the Mayor's spot.... lol
|
| biglaw |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 4:17:45 PM
Let's do it there SM, we have some insight on the operations. lol |
| summerlover |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 3:48:43 PM
How funny would THAT be?
Sportsmom = Councilchick! Does that mean I'd get free access to city "stuff"? KEWL!
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Sports Mom[/i]
[br]Sssssssssssssssssh biglaw, you're not supposed to tell anyone! LOL! 
quote:
[i]Originally posted by biglaw[/i]
[br]That would be perfect timing, a good possibility that either I or someone I know will run... lol
|
| Sports Mom |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 3:37:57 PM
Sssssssssssssssssh biglaw, you're not supposed to tell anyone! LOL!
quote:
[i]Originally posted by biglaw[/i]
[br]That would be perfect timing, a good possibility that either I or someone I know will run... lol
|
| biglaw |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 3:23:35 PM
That would be perfect timing, a good possibility that either I or someone I know will run, I'm waiting on the Mayor's spot.... lol |
| Bretland |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 3:14:52 PM
Big Law,
the next elections for Council are this November (I think). There are 3 seats up for election.
You running?? |
| biglaw |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 2:29:39 PM
Once again the City is offended about public forums that mentioned the backhanded operations that they perform and they apparantly do not want anyone to know about, when are the next elections for Council? |
| Jane Smith |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 08:52:17 AM
I don't see any problem with John running the ad. If the City wants to post or pull an ad, then they should be able to as they wish. But threatening or pulling their ad is taking a weaker approach.
I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said, "To be conscious that you are ignorant is a great step to knowledge". They should not fear ignorance, sometimes it takes decades. And our City is doing the right thing, for all the right reasons and thousands of residents. It's Monroe's future. |
| alltheanswers |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 06:44:24 AM
Sounds like Bob is getting out of control, stepping out of his boundaries. Gotta little Obama in his blood. |
| No money |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 12:59:27 AM
Trend or not, there is nothing wrong with it just because a few don't like it.quote:
[i]Originally posted by JacobTyler[/i]
[br]It's all in the demographics. Putting an ad in front of the wrong audience is bad business. Refer to my post above.
You go to a tech blog, you expect hardware/software ads. Go to a romance website, expect ads for other romance sites and such. Game forum, games and game related peripherals in the ads.
Go to a Monroe site, see an ad that is, frankly, anti Monroe. That's against the trend.
And before I get accused of more negativity, I just like to point out I count it as I see it.
|
| JacobTyler |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 11:54:02 PM
It's all in the demographics. Putting an ad in front of the wrong audience is bad business. Refer to my post above.
You go to a tech blog, you expect hardware/software ads. Go to a romance website, expect ads for other romance sites and such. Game forum, games and game related peripherals in the ads.
Go to a Monroe site, see an ad that is, frankly, anti Monroe. That's against the trend.
And before I get accused of more negativity, I just like to point out I count it as I see it. |
| No money |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 11:35:27 PM
I think much of this thread is some what confusing, but yep I do believe we are in agreement, it's John's site and he can put ad's on here of his choice whether he endorses them or not. If the city and others don't like it then, too bad.
At least it's not the type of ad that moves all over the place. |
| No money |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 11:33:38 PM
John has stated in the past that because he works in Middletown and lives in Monroe he will not be in favor of the coke plant or against the coke plant.
I think he can run the ad savebutler.org and be for, against or neutral, it's his choice and no one else's business. People that do TV commercials are the same, they will do a commercial even if they don't use the product, money talks.quote:
[i]Originally posted by ADH[/i]
[br]Then we are in agreement there.
Obviously those who have responded "disagreeing" with me did not clearly read Solo's post and then my post in response. I said I agreed with his entire post EXCEPT the part about John endorsing the ads on his site. Meaning I DO NOT believe that John/MSM endorse an ad just because it is on the site.
Hope it's clear now...
|
| ADH |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 11:27:52 PM
Then we are in agreement there.
Obviously those who have responded "disagreeing" with me did not clearly read Solo's post and then my post in response. I said I agreed with his entire post EXCEPT the part about John endorsing the ads on his site. Meaning I DO NOT believe that John/MSM endorse an ad just because it is on the site.
Hope it's clear now... |
| No money |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 11:20:13 PM
I'm talking about John and MSM and I do support him.quote:
[i]Originally posted by ADH[/i]
[br]Privately OWNED and OPERATED.
And how does it make no difference if the City endorses or supports something when we're discussing linking to it from the City's website?
Or are you talking about John and MSM? Having a hard time following you.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by No money[/i]
[br]Makes no difference if he supports or endorses the site and content or not, also I don't understand how can this site be considered private when any person from any place can sign up and use it.quote:
[i]Originally posted by ADH[/i]
[br]I completely agree with everything you said, except that an ad being displayed on this site implies John or MSM endorses or supports the message. The ads are there solely to make money, regardless of the message.
I personally think it is a bad idea for "private" sites to be linked from the City's page (and not because of this particular issue). JMO, of course, but I agree with Solo...in that case it does imply the site and it's content is endorsed, whether the message at the bottom of the page says so or not.
This site and the City's website are two very different things.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by SoloTSi97[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by JacobTyler[/i]
[br]It's Monroe's website, they can do what they want with it; just as you are all allowing Mr. Beagle to do with his.
Exactly. I don't see what the big deal is ... IMHO, the fact that the City of Monroe links their site to a privately owned site implies (to me) that they endorse/support/are affiliated with that site somehow. If they decide to no longer endorse/support/be affiliated with a site for any reason, they remove the link. So what?
Similarly, linking to savebutler.org implies (again, to me) that MainStreetMonroe (and, by extension, Mr. Beagle) supports that cause. More power to you if you do, but it doesn't surprise me that the City of Monroe doesn't want to link to a site that endorses/supports a position that the city officially opposes. If the City of Monroe appears to support/endorse a site that appears to support/endorse a viewpoint that they publicly oppose ... that just doesn't make sense to me.
I don't see why people are so worked up over it ... displaying the ad is completely within Mr. Beagle's prerogative, just as it is within the city's prerogative to include or exclude a link to MSM.
Just my $.02.
-Bob
|
| ADH |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 11:12:57 PM
Privately OWNED and OPERATED.
And how does it make no difference if the City endorses or supports something when we're discussing linking to it from the City's website?
Or are you talking about John and MSM? Having a hard time following you.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by No money[/i]
[br]Makes no difference if he supports or endorses the site and content or not, also I don't understand how can this site be considered private when any person from any place can sign up and use it.quote:
[i]Originally posted by ADH[/i]
[br]I completely agree with everything you said, except that an ad being displayed on this site implies John or MSM endorses or supports the message. The ads are there solely to make money, regardless of the message.
I personally think it is a bad idea for "private" sites to be linked from the City's page (and not because of this particular issue). JMO, of course, but I agree with Solo...in that case it does imply the site and it's content is endorsed, whether the message at the bottom of the page says so or not.
This site and the City's website are two very different things.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by SoloTSi97[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by JacobTyler[/i]
[br]It's Monroe's website, they can do what they want with it; just as you are all allowing Mr. Beagle to do with his.
Exactly. I don't see what the big deal is ... IMHO, the fact that the City of Monroe links their site to a privately owned site implies (to me) that they endorse/support/are affiliated with that site somehow. If they decide to no longer endorse/support/be affiliated with a site for any reason, they remove the link. So what?
Similarly, linking to savebutler.org implies (again, to me) that MainStreetMonroe (and, by extension, Mr. Beagle) supports that cause. More power to you if you do, but it doesn't surprise me that the City of Monroe doesn't want to link to a site that endorses/supports a position that the city officially opposes. If the City of Monroe appears to support/endorse a site that appears to support/endorse a viewpoint that they publicly oppose ... that just doesn't make sense to me.
I don't see why people are so worked up over it ... displaying the ad is completely within Mr. Beagle's prerogative, just as it is within the city's prerogative to include or exclude a link to MSM.
Just my $.02.
-Bob
|
| No money |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 11:08:32 PM
Makes no difference if he supports or endorses the site and content or not, also I don't understand how can this site be considered private when any person from any place can sign up and use it.quote:
[i]Originally posted by ADH[/i]
[br]I completely agree with everything you said, except that an ad being displayed on this site implies John or MSM endorses or supports the message. The ads are there solely to make money, regardless of the message.
I personally think it is a bad idea for "private" sites to be linked from the City's page (and not because of this particular issue). JMO, of course, but I agree with Solo...in that case it does imply the site and it's content is endorsed, whether the message at the bottom of the page says so or not.
This site and the City's website are two very different things.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by SoloTSi97[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by JacobTyler[/i]
[br]It's Monroe's website, they can do what they want with it; just as you are all allowing Mr. Beagle to do with his.
Exactly. I don't see what the big deal is ... IMHO, the fact that the City of Monroe links their site to a privately owned site implies (to me) that they endorse/support/are affiliated with that site somehow. If they decide to no longer endorse/support/be affiliated with a site for any reason, they remove the link. So what?
Similarly, linking to savebutler.org implies (again, to me) that MainStreetMonroe (and, by extension, Mr. Beagle) supports that cause. More power to you if you do, but it doesn't surprise me that the City of Monroe doesn't want to link to a site that endorses/supports a position that the city officially opposes. If the City of Monroe appears to support/endorse a site that appears to support/endorse a viewpoint that they publicly oppose ... that just doesn't make sense to me.
I don't see why people are so worked up over it ... displaying the ad is completely within Mr. Beagle's prerogative, just as it is within the city's prerogative to include or exclude a link to MSM.
Just my $.02.
-Bob
|
| ADH |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 11:02:28 PM
"If people here don't like who he advertises for you have a simple choice, just don't look at the site, make your own site and run it the way you want it."
I believe Bob did address the fact that John has every right to leave the advertisement on his site. I don't think that it is as simple as Bob not liking something on the site, but that there is an advertisement that could cost the city money and the city has a link to that on their website.
Not saying I agree or disagree with that particular logic, I just think there is a bit more to it than what you suggested in your original post (whether or not the site should be linked from the City's website).
I think he's attempting to do exactly what you state...run his own site (the City's site) the way he (as a representative of the city) wants. I personally don't think private sites should be linked regardless of what is on them.
I have a hard time believing I'm partially in agreement with Bob, but it seems I might be.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by No money[/i]
[br]Of course it is, they want John to remove "savebutler.org" and he has a right to do what he wants, it's his site.quote:
[i]Originally posted by ADH[/i]
[br]No Money, that isn't even what this is about.
|
| No money |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 10:44:03 PM
Of course it is, they want John to remove "savebutler.org" and he has a right to do what he wants, it's his site.quote:
[i]Originally posted by ADH[/i]
[br]No Money, that isn't even what this is about.
|
| ADH |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 8:03:05 PM
No Money, that isn't even what this is about. |
| Instigator |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 7:03:18 PM
I think the city should add Monroechat.com and The Journal News to their site. |
| No money |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 6:07:22 PM
If people here don't like who he advertises for you have a simple choice, just don't look at the site, make your own site and run it the way you want it. |
| Instigator |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 3:16:02 PM
The city has the right to take MSM off their site and all links that are not city, county, State or the local school district should be taken off. You can not take MSM off and not the others. I think its a shame that they waited until they did not like an add before wanting to take MSM off their site. |
| ADH |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 11:52:44 AM
I agree. I thought that is what I said, but maybe not...lol
quote:
[i]Originally posted by cmsquare[/i]
[br]I think a distinction needs to be made.
There is a difference between paid advertising and linking to someone's site.
Taking a $$ from someone to advertise their cause is in no way shape or form an endorsement of that cause.
Now posting a free link to someone's website, I would consider that an endorsement, and it's the cities right to take back that endorsement if they see fit. I'm not sure what good it would do, this place seems pretty well established to me.
|
| ADH |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 11:51:01 AM
Did you read Solo's post and then my post in response to that? I said exactly what you said below. We agree.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by loveyourneighbor[/i]
[br]If ads on this site imply that John endorses that cause or product, does that mean that any political ad or product ad on TV means that network endorses them? I think not. This website is part of how John makes a living just like the TV ads are how networks earn money. Plain and simple. If we allowed only ads and comments on this website that John and I agree with, this site would be boring and would cease to exist.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by ADH[/i]
[br]I completely agree with everything you said, except that an ad being displayed on this site implies John or MSM endorses or supports the message. The ads are there solely to make money, regardless of the message.
I personally think it is a bad idea for "private" sites to be linked from the City's page (and not because of this particular issue). JMO, of course, but I agree with Solo...in that case it does imply the site and it's content is endorsed, whether the message at the bottom of the page says so or not.
This site and the City's website are two very different things.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by SoloTSi97[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by JacobTyler[/i]
[br]It's Monroe's website, they can do what they want with it; just as you are all allowing Mr. Beagle to do with his.
Exactly. I don't see what the big deal is ... IMHO, the fact that the City of Monroe links their site to a privately owned site implies (to me) that they endorse/support/are affiliated with that site somehow. If they decide to no longer endorse/support/be affiliated with a site for any reason, they remove the link. So what?
Similarly, linking to savebutler.org implies (again, to me) that MainStreetMonroe (and, by extension, Mr. Beagle) supports that cause. More power to you if you do, but it doesn't surprise me that the City of Monroe doesn't want to link to a site that endorses/supports a position that the city officially opposes. If the City of Monroe appears to support/endorse a site that appears to support/endorse a viewpoint that they publicly oppose ... that just doesn't make sense to me.
I don't see why people are so worked up over it ... displaying the ad is completely within Mr. Beagle's prerogative, just as it is within the city's prerogative to include or exclude a link to MSM.
Just my $.02.
-Bob
|
| cmsquare |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 11:17:07 AM
I think a distinction needs to be made.
There is a difference between paid advertising and linking to someone's site.
Taking a $$ from someone to advertise their cause is in no way shape or form an endorsement of that cause.
Now posting a free link to someone's website, I would consider that an endorsement, and it's the cities right to take back that endorsement if they see fit. I'm not sure what good it would do, this place seems pretty well established to me.
|
| JacobTyler |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 11:08:27 AM
quote:
[i]Originally posted by loveyourneighbor[/i]
[br]If ads on this site imply that John endorses that cause or product, does that mean that any political ad or product ad on TV means that network endorses them? I think not. This website is part of how John makes a living just like the TV ads are how networks earn money. Plain and simple. If we allowed only ads and comments on this website that John and I agree with, this site would be boring and would cease to exist.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by ADH[/i]
[br]I completely agree with everything you said, except that an ad being displayed on this site implies John or MSM endorses or supports the message. The ads are there solely to make money, regardless of the message.
I personally think it is a bad idea for "private" sites to be linked from the City's page (and not because of this particular issue). JMO, of course, but I agree with Solo...in that case it does imply the site and it's content is endorsed, whether the message at the bottom of the page says so or not.
This site and the City's website are two very different things.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by SoloTSi97[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by JacobTyler[/i]
[br]It's Monroe's website, they can do what they want with it; just as you are all allowing Mr. Beagle to do with his.
Exactly. I don't see what the big deal is ... IMHO, the fact that the City of Monroe links their site to a privately owned site implies (to me) that they endorse/support/are affiliated with that site somehow. If they decide to no longer endorse/support/be affiliated with a site for any reason, they remove the link. So what?
Similarly, linking to savebutler.org implies (again, to me) that MainStreetMonroe (and, by extension, Mr. Beagle) supports that cause. More power to you if you do, but it doesn't surprise me that the City of Monroe doesn't want to link to a site that endorses/supports a position that the city officially opposes. If the City of Monroe appears to support/endorse a site that appears to support/endorse a viewpoint that they publicly oppose ... that just doesn't make sense to me.
I don't see why people are so worked up over it ... displaying the ad is completely within Mr. Beagle's prerogative, just as it is within the city's prerogative to include or exclude a link to MSM.
Just my $.02.
-Bob
Following the same logic, discovery channel would run an ad for lumber companies and others partaking in deforestation or polution just for the cash. Those shows wouldn't want to be associated with that so the network says "hit the road," and find an ad that fits the demographic better.
Remember the commercial where the elderly couple are watching TV and the home theater commercial comes on freaking them out with its loudness and craziness? Same thing (could not find a youtube link, sorry). It's all about the demographics. |
| Jane Smith |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 10:58:54 AM
http://www.belllegalgroup.com/CM/Environmental-Law/Air-Pollution.asp
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| Star_Rider |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 09:58:14 AM
So true.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by loveyourneighbor[/i]
[br]If ads on this site imply that John endorses that cause or product, does that mean that any political ad or product ad on TV means that network endorses them? I think not. This website is part of how John makes a living just like the TV ads are how networks earn money. Plain and simple. If we allowed only ads and comments on this website that John and I agree with, this site would be boring and would cease to exist.
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| loveyourneighbor |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 08:50:42 AM
If ads on this site imply that John endorses that cause or product, does that mean that any political ad or product ad on TV means that network endorses them? I think not. This website is part of how John makes a living just like the TV ads are how networks earn money. Plain and simple. If we allowed only ads and comments on this website that John and I agree with, this site would be boring and would cease to exist.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by ADH[/i]
[br]I completely agree with everything you said, except that an ad being displayed on this site implies John or MSM endorses or supports the message. The ads are there solely to make money, regardless of the message.
I personally think it is a bad idea for "private" sites to be linked from the City's page (and not because of this particular issue). JMO, of course, but I agree with Solo...in that case it does imply the site and it's content is endorsed, whether the message at the bottom of the page says so or not.
This site and the City's website are two very different things.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by SoloTSi97[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by JacobTyler[/i]
[br]It's Monroe's website, they can do what they want with it; just as you are all allowing Mr. Beagle to do with his.
Exactly. I don't see what the big deal is ... IMHO, the fact that the City of Monroe links their site to a privately owned site implies (to me) that they endorse/support/are affiliated with that site somehow. If they decide to no longer endorse/support/be affiliated with a site for any reason, they remove the link. So what?
Similarly, linking to savebutler.org implies (again, to me) that MainStreetMonroe (and, by extension, Mr. Beagle) supports that cause. More power to you if you do, but it doesn't surprise me that the City of Monroe doesn't want to link to a site that endorses/supports a position that the city officially opposes. If the City of Monroe appears to support/endorse a site that appears to support/endorse a viewpoint that they publicly oppose ... that just doesn't make sense to me.
I don't see why people are so worked up over it ... displaying the ad is completely within Mr. Beagle's prerogative, just as it is within the city's prerogative to include or exclude a link to MSM.
Just my $.02.
-Bob
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| Suzi Rubin |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 12:32:21 AM
Wow! I've been away all day at Beauty and The Beast and look what I've missed! I answered Bob this morning before I left:
*****
On 4/18/09 10:08 AM, "Suzi Rubin" <rubins@monroeohio.org> wrote:
If thats the case, then I think we should remove all links to outside websites as Bill Brock suggested before. I dont think we should be in the business of controlling the media or the message. If we want to link others to community news, we have to take the good with the bad. We can control what we say on our city website, but we have no business dictating to others what they can/cannot say.
************
I haven't talked to any others on Council, so not sure where they stand. I am certainly committed to the city's action against SunCoke, but I am also definitely NOT in favor of censoring anyone's site, directly or through punitive actions. Our community is best served by having all voices heard and everyone has a right to their own opinion (including Dexter and AK Steel/SunCoke).
I am a very firm believer in freedom of speech and of the press.
*********
Shameless plug:
Go see Beauty and The Beast on Sunday at 2:30 if you haven't seen it already (and even if you have). It's really a great show and I think you'll be amazed at the talent we have right here in Monroe!
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| ADH |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 12:12:20 AM
I completely agree with everything you said, except that an ad being displayed on this site implies John or MSM endorses or supports the message. The ads are there solely to make money, regardless of the message.
I personally think it is a bad idea for "private" sites to be linked from the City's page (and not because of this particular issue). JMO, of course, but I agree with Solo...in that case it does imply the site and it's content is endorsed, whether the message at the bottom of the page says so or not.
This site and the City's website are two very different things.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by SoloTSi97[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by JacobTyler[/i]
[br]It's Monroe's website, they can do what they want with it; just as you are all allowing Mr. Beagle to do with his.
Exactly. I don't see what the big deal is ... IMHO, the fact that the City of Monroe links their site to a privately owned site implies (to me) that they endorse/support/are affiliated with that site somehow. If they decide to no longer endorse/support/be affiliated with a site for any reason, they remove the link. So what?
Similarly, linking to savebutler.org implies (again, to me) that MainStreetMonroe (and, by extension, Mr. Beagle) supports that cause. More power to you if you do, but it doesn't surprise me that the City of Monroe doesn't want to link to a site that endorses/supports a position that the city officially opposes. If the City of Monroe appears to support/endorse a site that appears to support/endorse a viewpoint that they publicly oppose ... that just doesn't make sense to me.
I don't see why people are so worked up over it ... displaying the ad is completely within Mr. Beagle's prerogative, just as it is within the city's prerogative to include or exclude a link to MSM.
Just my $.02.
-Bob
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| Instigator |
Posted - 04/19/2009 : 12:09:58 AM
This is definitely the best topic I have seen on here for a while. I'm not sure if John has leg to stand on and I don't think taking it off will hurt MSM. Council on the other hand are looking pretty ridiculous waiting until John put an add on they do not support. This decision should have been made long before now and should not be made because of one add. I take more offence to the Mike Davis DVD On Sale Now add than the savebutler.org add. How long has this add been on here and it continues to be on sale? Taking the MSM link off the site at this point in the game only tells me its not looking good for the city. Those who think MSM should stay on the site you need to email council and let them know how you feel. http://www.monroeohio.org/info/local.cfm |
| JacobTyler |
Posted - 04/18/2009 : 10:21:07 PM
It would be a riot to see what would happen if JB put up "Pro-smoking and pro-drinking" ads. That's an opposing viewpoint (for some), may cause tension. |
| Keith50 |
Posted - 04/18/2009 : 9:28:28 PM
quote:
[i]Originally posted by SoloTSi97[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by JacobTyler[/i]
[br]It's Monroe's website, they can do what they want with it; just as you are all allowing Mr. Beagle to do with his.
Exactly. I don't see what the big deal is ... IMHO, the fact that the City of Monroe links their site to a privately owned site implies (to me) that they endorse/support/are affiliated with that site somehow. If they decide to no longer endorse/support/be affiliated with a site for any reason, they remove the link. So what?
Similarly, linking to savebutler.org implies (again, to me) that MainStreetMonroe (and, by extension, Mr. Beagle) supports that cause. More power to you if you do, but it doesn't surprise me that the City of Monroe doesn't want to link to a site that endorses/supports a position that the city officially opposes. If the City of Monroe appears to support/endorse a site that appears to support/endorse a viewpoint that they publicly oppose ... that just doesn't make sense to me.
I don't see why people are so worked up over it ... displaying the ad is completely within Mr. Beagle's prerogative, just as it is within the city's prerogative to include or exclude a link to MSM.
Just my $.02.
-Bob
Amen,iam against the coke plant but he has a right to put ads on here as he please's. my$.02. |
| SoloTSi97 |
Posted - 04/18/2009 : 8:59:01 PM
quote:
[i]Originally posted by JacobTyler[/i]
[br]It's Monroe's website, they can do what they want with it; just as you are all allowing Mr. Beagle to do with his.
Exactly. I don't see what the big deal is ... IMHO, the fact that the City of Monroe links their site to a privately owned site implies (to me) that they endorse/support/are affiliated with that site somehow. If they decide to no longer endorse/support/be affiliated with a site for any reason, they remove the link. So what?
Similarly, linking to savebutler.org implies (again, to me) that MainStreetMonroe (and, by extension, Mr. Beagle) supports that cause. More power to you if you do, but it doesn't surprise me that the City of Monroe doesn't want to link to a site that endorses/supports a position that the city officially opposes. If the City of Monroe appears to support/endorse a site that appears to support/endorse a viewpoint that they publicly oppose ... that just doesn't make sense to me.
I don't see why people are so worked up over it ... displaying the ad is completely within Mr. Beagle's prerogative, just as it is within the city's prerogative to include or exclude a link to MSM.
Just my $.02.
-Bob |
| JacobTyler |
Posted - 04/18/2009 : 8:28:42 PM
As a matter of fact, that is an expertly envisioned and created ad, although maintaining an air of simplicity. It is so convicing that I may in fact have to sign the petition as the ad demands. |
| Les Lofton |
Posted - 04/18/2009 : 8:27:27 PM
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bob Kelley[/i]
[br]There have been many discussions for and against this coke plant. The City has drawn a line in the sand so to speak and we do not support the coke plant. We do not support the save butler site. I have no issue with two sided debates and have engaged in many of them. I have been for some things and against others.
John profits from hits, good or bad, right or wrong. He profits from conflict and opposing opinions, he profits from all of us everyday spewing off about our lives and what we like and don't like about them.
We(the city) drew a line in the sand not to support the coke plant, that means we also do not support efforts against that position. John made a conscience business decision to take their money, was it because he's broke or was it because he wanted more controversy? If you choose to buy into the cry foul, "my freedom of speech has been infringed upon" that's your right, I just don't happen to see it that way. It wreaks more of war profiteering to me, but that's just me.
In answer to another question...all links. We are a government agency. Our City Manager warned us that allowing outside links would be bad, but we sided with John instead of listening to Mr. Brock. I was at the front of that movement so John you may be right, my judgment is not the best sometimes but I am man enough to admit when I am wrong and deal with the mistake. My vote will be to remove all non-governmental, commercial links as suggested by another member in this conversation as was originally recommended. Bill if you read this you owe me an "I told you so".
As for you John, ban me, don't ban me "insert Rhett Butler text here".
Rhett Butler: I'm very drunk and I intend on getting still drunker before this evening's over. |
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