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Monroe News
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Posted - 02/27/2012 :  11:06:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse



Ohio high school shooting: suspect held after four students injured

Three boys and a girl reportedly wounded after gunman – who officials believe is a student at the school – opened fire

A gunman is being held by police after four students were wounded in a shooting at an Ohio high school.

FBI agent Scott Wilson said after Monday morning's shooting that there was one suspected culprit. He would not discuss the extent of the students' injuries, according to the Associated Press.

Erin Knife, the civil deputy with the Geauga County Sheriff's office, said the shooting was reported around 7.30am at Chardon High School about 30 miles east of Cleveland. Knife said she did not yet know the number of victims.

Chardon schools superintendent Joseph Bergant told local media the shooter was believed to be a student.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/27/ohio-high-school-shooting-suspect-held

Monroe, Ohio Breaking News

Poff
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Posted - 02/27/2012 :  11:36:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I don't believe it........It is a misprint..They have "No Gun" signs posted, so this is not possible. They were protected by the signs.
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Monroe News
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Posted - 02/27/2012 :  11:53:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse


Monroe, Ohio Breaking News
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Monroe News
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Posted - 02/27/2012 :  1:00:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Suspect in custody after 1 student killed, 4 wounded in shooting at Ohio high school

URGENT: One student was killed and four were wounded during a shooting early Monday at an Ohio high school, authorities said. A suspect, whose name has not been released, is in police custody.
Civil deputy Erin Knife with the Geauga County Sheriff's Office said the shooting was reported around 7:30 a.m. Monday at Chardon High School.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/27/ohio-high-school-on-lockdown-after-reports-shooting/#ixzz1nbf2Hpbe

Monroe, Ohio Breaking News
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Houndog
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Posted - 02/27/2012 :  10:58:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Poff[/i]
[br]I don't believe it........It is a misprint..They have "No Gun" signs posted, so this is not possible. They were protected by the signs.



No matter how many firearms you have in a school. This is possible. Any
half wit will be able to pull off a tragedy such as this.
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johnwells
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Posted - 02/27/2012 :  11:49:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Isn't Monroe schools losing their resource officer? I wonder if this school had one and could they have ended this quicker?
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Poff
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Posted - 02/28/2012 :  06:46:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Houndog[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Poff[/i]
[br]I don't believe it........It is a misprint..They have "No Gun" signs posted, so this is not possible. They were protected by the signs.



No matter how many firearms you have in a school. This is possible. Any
half wit will be able to pull off a tragedy such as this.



Correct........No need for signs or laws banning inanimate objects. Stopping an active shooter before they cause harm is almost impossible in all situtations.
A sign stating the death penalty sentence is mandatory for school shootings and hang them at "half time" for all to see....No different then showing gory car accident pics to drive the meaning home.......
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Poff
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Posted - 02/28/2012 :  08:37:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

CHARDON, Ohio — A second victim has reportedly died in a shooting at Chardon High School on Monday.

Russell King Jr., 17, was pronounced brain dead late Monday.

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wildthang85
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Posted - 02/28/2012 :  09:47:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I wonder where he got the gun?


you make my heart sing
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Matt_Steele
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Posted - 02/28/2012 :  10:21:42 AM  Show Profile  Send Matt_Steele an AOL message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Poff[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Houndog[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Poff[/i]
[br]I don't believe it........It is a misprint..They have "No Gun" signs posted, so this is not possible. They were protected by the signs.



No matter how many firearms you have in a school. This is possible. Any
half wit will be able to pull off a tragedy such as this.



Correct........No need for signs or laws banning inanimate objects. Stopping an active shooter before they cause harm is almost impossible in all situtations.
A sign stating the death penalty sentence is mandatory for school shootings and hang them at "half time" for all to see....No different then showing gory car accident pics to drive the meaning home.......




Ehh I'm pretty sure the idea of the death penalty being a deterrent to crime has been debunked many times
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John Beagle
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Posted - 02/28/2012 :  10:24:36 AM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I think some teachers should be certified to carry a weapon or have a weapon nearby in the event of an emergency.

More lives would be saved. Its impossible to fight a gun wielding kid with your bare hands.

"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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eahrman
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Posted - 02/28/2012 :  11:34:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by John Beagle[/i]
[br]I think some teachers should be certified to carry a weapon or have a weapon nearby in the event of an emergency.

More lives would be saved. Its impossible to fight a gun wielding kid with your bare hands.



I agree 100%, I posted this same statement yesterday when one of the local news stations posted this story on facebook. I also agree with kids carrying cell phones. I want my child to always be able to have one close in the event of emergency. Lots of kids were able to stay in constant communication with their parents yesterday as this was going on.

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Poff
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Posted - 02/28/2012 :  12:36:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Matt_Steele[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Poff[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Houndog[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Poff[/i]
[br]I don't believe it........It is a misprint..They have "No Gun" signs posted, so this is not possible. They were protected by the signs.



No matter how many firearms you have in a school. This is possible. Any
half wit will be able to pull off a tragedy such as this.



Correct........No need for signs or laws banning inanimate objects. Stopping an active shooter before they cause harm is almost impossible in all situtations.
A sign stating the death penalty sentence is mandatory for school shootings and hang them at "half time" for all to see....No different then showing gory car accident pics to drive the meaning home.......




Ehh I'm pretty sure the idea of the death penalty being a deterrent to crime has been debunked many times



Yep, just like being fined for speeding and being jailed for thefts, those ideas have been debunked many times over.

If death penalty saves just one child, its worth it, isn't it.....
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Matt_Steele
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Posted - 02/28/2012 :  12:49:25 PM  Show Profile  Send Matt_Steele an AOL message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by John Beagle[/i]
[br]I think some teachers should be certified to carry a weapon or have a weapon nearby in the event of an emergency.

More lives would be saved. Its impossible to fight a gun wielding kid with your bare hands.



You're assuming those teachers would be around during a case of an emergency

also where would they keep their guns? Would they have them on their persons at all times? What if a group of students assaulted that teacher and took their gun?

Finally, who pays for this?


I'm not anti gun, but I'm just not sure that this is the solution here
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Poff
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Posted - 02/28/2012 :  5:54:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Matt_Steele[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by John Beagle[/i]
[br]I think some teachers should be certified to carry a weapon or have a weapon nearby in the event of an emergency.

More lives would be saved. Its impossible to fight a gun wielding kid with your bare hands.



You're assuming those teachers would be around during a case of an emergency

also where would they keep their guns? Would they have them on their persons at all times? What if a group of students assaulted that teacher and took their gun?

Finally, who pays for this?


I'm not anti gun, but I'm just not sure that this is the solution here



Same could happen to a school resource officer, same thing could happen to a LEO on the street. All are just deterrents to hold down crimes, what stops a criminal from shooting a lone traffic cop while he is sitting on the side of road, running radar......?

Nothing stops a determined person from carrying out any plan, because no knowledge of a plan exists until it is executed or made public. But to have a network of people willing and able to stop a plan once started will hold many in check.....

You pay taxes correct? Would you still pay them if there was no one to enforce the collections or dole out penalities...?

There is no easy solution without turning our communties or schools into a prison and placing everything on lockdown to stop crime ....

But I will bet a criminal will choose a "soft" target over one willing to fight....

In a school shooting enviroment there were indicators before any shooting happened.....I think there is where the key lies, learning to profile those capable of this type of crime.

In all, no solution will be perfect there will be victims. In reality the American people are the first responders to any emergency and should be equipped to handle them....and lessen the damage.

But there different people also, a grease fire on the stove and some will call 911, run outside and watch the house burn.....Then there are some who will just place a lid on the pan and continue making dinner....

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buck35
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Posted - 02/28/2012 :  10:15:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

But wouldn't that murder John?

quote:
[i]Originally posted by John Beagle[/i]
[br]I think some teachers should be certified to carry a weapon or have a weapon nearby in the event of an emergency.

More lives would be saved. Its impossible to fight a gun wielding kid with your bare hands.

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Hornet89
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Posted - 02/29/2012 :  07:42:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Middletown PDs policy changed awhile back and alot of Depts along with us....if there is an active shooter, as soon as the officer arrives he/she is to go inside and engage the shooter right away.....the days of columbine are over....time saves lives...go straight to the shooter and take them out...dangerous for cops but worth it if it saves lives....
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logicgate
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Posted - 02/29/2012 :  5:51:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by John Beagle[/i]
[br]I think some teachers should be certified to carry a weapon or have a weapon nearby in the event of an emergency.

More lives would be saved. Its impossible to fight a gun wielding kid with your bare hands.



This is one of those "Voice posts" that just goes out there like so many of the ideas for schools/teachers/education. So idealistic

1. A teacher carrying a firearm among students all day creates a whole new set of potential problems
2. you would have to expect those staff members to go through no less than the same level of weapons training as Police professionals
3. Professional liability would increase significantly.
4. then there would be annual re-qualifying & certification for a set of individuals who are going to be expected to be effective in two very different environments
5. would psychological testing for those staff members be needed to qualify?
6. With school budgets tight already, where is the funding for training, weapons, ammunition, insurance, certification going to come from?
7. I doubt a professional would take on this extra responsibility/risk without some compensation
8. Now, if this were to happen, you have multiple "rookies" in a crowded student environment trying to make life/death split second decisions. What could possibly go wrong? (yes, sarcasm)


Or.. focus on educating your kids about safety in and out of school. Design schools with "obstacles" to access. A staff that is alert for "signs" and indicators to try and head off or minimize problems and a well trained local response team.

Now, if this doesn't throw up enough reasons for pause... Picture little Suzie and Mikey sitting in their third grade class, social studies, or lunch while their teachers stand there with side arms.

Under NCLB - Jacque Cousteau did not have enough education to teach your child Marine Biology
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johnwells
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Posted - 02/29/2012 :  6:46:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by logicgate[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by John Beagle[/i]
[br]I think some teachers should be certified to carry a weapon or have a weapon nearby in the event of an emergency.

More lives would be saved. Its impossible to fight a gun wielding kid with your bare hands.



This is one of those "Voice posts" that just goes out there like so many of the ideas for schools/teachers/education. So idealistic

1. A teacher carrying a firearm among students all day creates a whole new set of potential problems
2. you would have to expect those staff members to go through no less than the same level of weapons training as Police professionals
3. Professional liability would increase significantly.
4. then there would be annual re-qualifying & certification for a set of individuals who are going to be expected to be effective in two very different environments
5. would psychological testing for those staff members be needed to qualify?
6. With school budgets tight already, where is the funding for training, weapons, ammunition, insurance, certification going to come from?
7. I doubt a professional would take on this extra responsibility/risk without some compensation
8. Now, if this were to happen, you have multiple "rookies" in a crowded student environment trying to make life/death split second decisions. What could possibly go wrong? (yes, sarcasm)


Or.. focus on educating your kids about safety in and out of school. Design schools with "obstacles" to access. A staff that is alert for "signs" and indicators to try and head off or minimize problems and a well trained local response team.

Now, if this doesn't throw up enough reasons for pause... Picture little Suzie and Mikey sitting in their third grade class, social studies, or lunch while their teachers stand there with side arms.



Legally the teachers would only need a CCW license and an exception from the School Board per the ORC.
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Hornet89
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Posted - 03/01/2012 :  07:25:36 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

i agree, if a teacher wants to get ccw, allow them to carry....if an armed person enters the school, it may be the kids only chance.
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blueblood
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Posted - 03/01/2012 :  07:51:47 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Hornet89[/i]
[br]i agree, if a teacher wants to get ccw, allow them to carry....if an armed person enters the school, it may be the kids only chance.



Totally agree. When these things happen, they are totally at random, unpredictable, and a potential massacre in the making. A gunmen with multiple weapons and clips can reek total havoc on unarmed masses where their only options are run and hide/lock the doors and cower/wait seemingly for eternity for help to arrive! The same rationale for pilots to carry guns apply to every aspect of the fallen world we live in. Hate to be a pessimist, but it "ain't" and "won't" get any better.

The old saying "God may have made men, but Samuel Colt made them equal" is as true today as it was 150 years ago.

Let no man pull you low enough to hate him.
-- Martin Luther King Jr.
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logicgate
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Posted - 03/01/2012 :  5:18:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Many schools are revising their "lockdown" procedures to not be a "sit, cower and wait" approach. There is a name for the new approach, but I can't remember it. Basically it instructs the students and staff to move quick and make for the exits. Moving targets are harder to hit. If confronted with a shooter students and staff are encouraged to be proactive and not passive. The buildings are usually sprawling floor plans, which offers most students a chance to exit.

As for the CCW, that is just a legal speed bump as it does not provide any substantive proof you have someone with a gun in their hand that will not do more harm than good in a chaotic situation.

Just look at the legal requirements teachers have everyday that ARE NOT life and death choices and the training they are required to have for that. So toss them a CCW and call it good? I don't think so.

Under NCLB - Jacque Cousteau did not have enough education to teach your child Marine Biology
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Houndog
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Posted - 03/01/2012 :  7:53:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I have no faith in ccw. All it means is that you can afford a firearm and have the weekend off.
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Hornet89
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Posted - 03/02/2012 :  07:26:24 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

so open floor plans and running sound good to you but some armed teachers doesnt? sheep/wolves/sheepdogs
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wildthang85
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Posted - 03/02/2012 :  09:23:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

You open up a big pandora's box by allowing teachers to keep a gun in school.

It's not a good idea in my opinion. Besides the school's will never go for it. All it will take is one incident with that gun and the school district will be sued for everything they own and then some.

yes...running out of the building sounds way better to me than sitting in a classroom under my desk while waiting for my teacher to get into a gun battle in which he very well could be out gunned in. Thanks but no thanks.

It's bad enough we let people bring guns into places that serve alcohol, we don't need guns in our schools. Measure's should be put in place to keep the guns and weaspons OUT of schools...not bring them in.

you make my heart sing
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John Beagle
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Posted - 03/02/2012 :  09:35:45 AM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I think students will find a whole new level of respect and discipline if the teacher was carrying.

"I told you to be quiet," the teacher said with a raised voice with a hand on the gun.


"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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Poff
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Posted - 03/02/2012 :  10:06:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by logicgate[/i]
[br]Many schools are revising their "lockdown" procedures to not be a "sit, cower and wait" approach. There is a name for the new approach, but I can't remember it. Basically it instructs the students and staff to move quick and make for the exits. Moving targets are harder to hit. If confronted with a shooter students and staff are encouraged to be proactive and not passive. The buildings are usually sprawling floor plans, which offers most students a chance to exit.

As for the CCW, that is just a legal speed bump as it does not provide any substantive proof you have someone with a gun in their hand that will not do more harm than good in a chaotic situation.

Just look at the legal requirements teachers have everyday that ARE NOT life and death choices and the training they are required to have for that. So toss them a CCW and call it good? I don't think so.



Sit and cower will never work.........Putting distance between the shooter and the victims has some merit as not hitting a moving target , only if the victims move laterally. What must happen in the time of need is to have someone engage the shooter either with or without a gun..But still this requires some training, just like training to adminster first aid. Some knowledege must be aquired, are teachers instructed how to use a fire extinguisher?.

BottomLine, to lessen casualities the shooter must be engaged.....How anyone chooses to do is their decision.
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MoneyBags
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Posted - 03/02/2012 :  10:44:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
Now, if this doesn't throw up enough reasons for pause... Picture little Suzie and Mikey sitting in their third grade class, social studies, or lunch while their teachers stand there with side arms.

This is really just an extension of the age old pipe dream that many folks have. That complex social issues with many different factors, and variables can be solved by just throwing as many guns at it as possible.
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Hornet89
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Posted - 03/02/2012 :  11:43:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Poff[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by logicgate[/i]
[br]Many schools are revising their "lockdown" procedures to not be a "sit, cower and wait" approach. There is a name for the new approach, but I can't remember it. Basically it instructs the students and staff to move quick and make for the exits. Moving targets are harder to hit. If confronted with a shooter students and staff are encouraged to be proactive and not passive. The buildings are usually sprawling floor plans, which offers most students a chance to exit.

As for the CCW, that is just a legal speed bump as it does not provide any substantive proof you have someone with a gun in their hand that will not do more harm than good in a chaotic situation.

Just look at the legal requirements teachers have everyday that ARE NOT life and death choices and the training they are required to have for that. So toss them a CCW and call it good? I don't think so.



Sit and cower will never work.........Putting distance between the shooter and the victims has some merit as not hitting a moving target , only if the victims move laterally. What must happen in the time of need is to have someone engage the shooter either with or without a gun..But still this requires some training, just like training to adminster first aid. Some knowledege must be aquired, are teachers instructed how to use a fire extinguisher?.

BottomLine, to lessen casualities the shooter must be engaged.....How anyone chooses to do is their decision.



Perfectly said!
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blueblood
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Posted - 03/02/2012 :  11:55:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Hornet89[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Poff[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by logicgate[/i]
[br]Many schools are revising their "lockdown" procedures to not be a "sit, cower and wait" approach. There is a name for the new approach, but I can't remember it. Basically it instructs the students and staff to move quick and make for the exits. Moving targets are harder to hit. If confronted with a shooter students and staff are encouraged to be proactive and not passive. The buildings are usually sprawling floor plans, which offers most students a chance to exit.

As for the CCW, that is just a legal speed bump as it does not provide any substantive proof you have someone with a gun in their hand that will not do more harm than good in a chaotic situation.

Just look at the legal requirements teachers have everyday that ARE NOT life and death choices and the training they are required to have for that. So toss them a CCW and call it good? I don't think so.



Sit and cower will never work.........Putting distance between the shooter and the victims has some merit as not hitting a moving target , only if the victims move laterally. What must happen in the time of need is to have someone engage the shooter either with or without a gun..But still this requires some training, just like training to adminster first aid. Some knowledege must be aquired, are teachers instructed how to use a fire extinguisher?.

BottomLine, to lessen casualities the shooter must be engaged.....How anyone chooses to do is their decision.



Perfectly said!

I agree (except for one item omitted)
More than any of the items mentioned(which I agree with) the number one thing needed is the courage and will to confront the shooter.

Let no man pull you low enough to hate him.
-- Martin Luther King Jr.
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Hornet89
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Posted - 03/02/2012 :  12:01:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

very true, will to survive, will to never quit, will to do anything to stop/destroy person trying to hurt you and others
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Hornet89
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Posted - 03/02/2012 :  12:23:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

This is geared towards police officers, but I think it applies to anyone in a fight for thier life....



Officer Survival Creed
"The will to survive, to survive the attack, must be uppermost in my mind. For the one who lives through a fight is better off than the one who does not. Therefore, preparation and not paranoia is the key to my survival. To survive I must be aware, be alert, be confident, be deceptive, be decisive, and be ready. I must expect the unexpected and do the unexpected.

When faced with violent assault, my life depends upon my reaction without hesitation. There is no time to ponder because to ponder is to possibly perish. My response, if attacked, must not be fear but aggressiveness. I must block out all thoughts of my own peril and think only of stopping the assailant.

My prize in personal defense is my life. The perfect fight is one that is over before the loser realizes what is happening. The perfect defense is a counterattack that succeeds before the enemy can attack again. Therefore, if I am assaulted, I will retaliate instantly. I will be sudden and quick. I will be fast, not fair. Speed is my salvation.

If my attacker knocks me down, I will fight back against the odds and get up off the ground. I will seize the initiative and take every advantage. My concern is to stay alive. I won't hold back.

If I find myself under lethal attack, I won't be kind. I will be harsh and tough. If I must shoot, I will shoot with precision and shoot to stop. If I must use my hands, I will use them with all the strength I possess and more. When I strike, I will strike hard; I will kick, punch, and do what must be done to survive. I will strike no more after my attacker is incapable of further action, but I will see that he is stopped.

Above all, I won't give up, and I will make it. I will not die in the streets, or in an alley, or in any other part of the concrete jungle. I will survive; not just by good luck and good fortune, but by my skills."
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Houndog
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Posted - 03/02/2012 :  2:17:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

The way I worded my last post was rude. For that I am sorry. To further explain, eight hours in the classroom and four hours at the range is in no way even beginning to be enough education and training to allow people to carry. I have, on more than one occasion, spoken to first time gun owners; whom made their purchase, took the class and range time and that is literally the last time they had fired the gun.
hornet you know better than anyone that constant practice with the firearm one chooses to carry is necessary to even begin to be prepared for an active shooter situation. And that is just speaking to the hardware side of such.
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Hornet89
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Posted - 03/02/2012 :  2:26:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

very true but better to have a gun in that situation than not have one.....but u better be willing to use it without hesitation
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