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John Beagle
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Posted - 04/16/2012 :  11:28:49 AM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

This sentence from Tracy is what gets me, "Your inability to work within the council to solve issues was very evident."

That statement is what is wrong with many local governments. Work within council is what got us in Fiscal Emergency in the early part of last decade. Working within the school board may have gotten the schools in trouble too.

Where is that person who questions things? I would vote for the person who shows some 'balls' and votes with his mind instead of his heart. Or worse, vote due to peer pressure, like you did Tracy.

Telling the city attorney you live in Monroe was a big lie. Pulling links off the city website because Hustler may want a link is another lie.

Council didn't have the desire to call you out on your residency because they knew they had you in the bag. It's bad enough you had one person on council who votes his mind, god forbid if another independent soul was appointed. Votes of 2 v 5 would just not be acceptable in our little Brigadoon.


"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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blueblood
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Posted - 04/16/2012 :  11:44:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by John Beagle[/i]
[br]This sentence from Tracy is what gets me, "Your inability to work within the council to solve issues was very evident."

That statement is what is wrong with many local governments. Work within council is what got us in Fiscal Emergency in the early part of last decade. Working within the school board may have gotten the schools in trouble too.

Where is that person who questions things? I would vote for the person who shows some 'balls' and votes with his mind instead of his heart. Or worse, vote due to peer pressure, like you did Tracy.

Telling the city attorney you live in Monroe was a big lie. Pulling links off the city website because Hustler may want a link is another lie.

Council didn't have the desire to call you out on your residency because they knew they had you in the bag. It's bad enough you had one person on council who votes his mind, god forbid if another independent soul was appointed. Votes of 2 v 5 would just not be acceptable in our little Brigadoon.





Really? Funny you didn't feel like that at all when you were banishing Instigator from this site for totally illogical and outlandish/obscene statements. I know exactly what Tracy is referring to. You seem to have short term memory issues.

Let no man pull you low enough to hate him.
-- Martin Luther King Jr.
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Tracy
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Posted - 04/16/2012 :  11:50:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Sad how you want to dwell on issues that no longer have any relevance instead of working with other council members to solve issues.

So Why do you think each of the other council members do not see things the way you do? The council is made up of 7 members and to pass any thing you need to have at least 4 members to agree or willing to work together to get anything done. how do you see your vote of no doing anything.

The half truths and misdirection you use now is to not answer my question and try to deflect the topic onto me .. you will continue to misdirect your following comments instead of answering the questions.. why do you feel the need to fight the council at every turn? What do you get out of being on council if you alone vote no on almost every issue?


quote:
[i]Originally posted by Todd[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Tracy[/i]
[br]I was there for longer then 9 months, but bending facts and using half truths are key elements in true political form. Todd, I sat next you for many a council meeting and you voted NO on a lot more than those 3 issues. Your inability to work within the council to solve issues was very evident. I believe you wanted to make a name for yourself by fighting the council. I think you have archive that goal, I am just not sure what that name is. I believe you had an agenda even when you posted on here under another name to stir up issue and start your political career.

one more note, you have taken shots at me on a few occasions and I am not even there any more. Maybe you should spend a little of that time on the current issue at hand and learn to work for your constituents and within the context of council to solve issue instead of trying to become one.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Todd[/i]
[br]I would like to add one more issue that I forgot about. That issue was a Councilman living in Montgomery County for 9 months while being on council. That issue has passed and the intent was not there.



How long did you live in Montgomery County while being on council? I did not know the exact date but I knew it was longer than 9 months. I was told almost a year. You still renting that place on Sands for a dollar? Bending facts and using half truths are key elements in true political form.





TRACY
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John Beagle
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Posted - 04/16/2012 :  11:55:07 AM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

So you are equating posting on here to Monroe legislation? Really?

Short term? How long has Tracy been gone?

Do you remember the war between Bob Kelley and Tom Birdwell on 100% Tax Abatement. What one said to the other had to be redacted is was so evil and hateful. Kinda made the Instigator seem mild and understanding.

Funny blueblood, other than your love of UK and one or two little Monroe issues, we agree on just about everything else.

Go Bucks!

"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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Todd
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Posted - 04/16/2012 :  12:01:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

The minutes are published.

http://www.monroeohio.org/departments/mayor-council
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buckeyenut
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Posted - 04/16/2012 :  12:17:26 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

While I completely understand that Council needs to stick together for the greater good of accomplishment (not to mention appearances - you don't want the press getting wind of members always in disagreement or the residents will begin to believe in the conspiracy of raised eyebrows), having just one member as the continual dissenting opinion will just cause everyone to say "whatever, it's just Todd being Todd again".

But the truth is, more people agree with him than not & that's where Council sometimes gets it wrong.
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Tracy
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Posted - 04/16/2012 :  12:36:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Originally posted by John Beagle[/i]
[br]This sentence from Tracy is what gets me, "Your inability to work within the council to solve issues was very evident."

As a group the council will not have the same opinion on each issue. But as Community leaders, they have to work together for the good of the community you serve. The problem is when people believe their way is the only way to solve the issues. Todd almost never provides reasoning for his no votes, I remember a no vote from him simply because he did not want to be seen as one of the good old boys.

That statement is what is wrong with many local governments. Work within council is what got us in Fiscal Emergency in the early part of last decade. Working within the school board may have gotten the schools in trouble too.

John where were you when that was going on? You were living in monroe at the time. I know you were there as I bought your old house

Where is that person who questions things? I would vote for the person who shows some 'balls' and votes with his mind instead of his heart. Or worse, vote due to peer pressure, like you did Tracy.

John, we have you the watch dog of Monroe politics, To make sure things work as they should. Of course if i did not agree with your opinion then I did not have my own and was just following the herd. You only see what you want John. Run for council and then The citizen can vote for you and (your big Balls) when you hold the council accountable for all of their missteps.

Telling the city attorney you live in Monroe was a big lie.
Never lied to the city Attorney.

Pulling links off the city website because Hustler may want a link is another lie.
I requested to pull your link off the city web site. We did not have any policy on the content or links we would post. I had them pull all links at the time until we could get a policy in place. It was a smart move and our legal advice at the time was to pull them off. You wanted to think it was your little grade school spat with Bob but it was good business sense that removed your link from a middletown business on a Monroe city link. Talk to council and give them a reason to put your links back on the city... you will get better results there then whining about something that happened 3 years ago.

Council didn't have the desire to call you out on your residency because they knew they had you in the bag. It's bad enough you had one person on council who votes his mind, god forbid if another independent soul was appointed. Votes of 2 v 5 would just not be acceptable in our little Brigadoon.

The other council members were given the facts and the legal opinion from our attorney. Today all of that is not going to change a single thing in Monroe. The only reason to bring it up here is so you can try to shut me up or to discredit me. If you truly believed in free speech you would leave my posts up and answer my questions. Maybe you should run john. I would even come back to Monroe and pass your petitions around so you could run for office.

TRACY
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Tracy
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Posted - 04/16/2012 :  12:42:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

If that was true why did they get reelected?

quote:
[i]Originally posted by buckeyenut[/i]
[br]While I completely understand that Council needs to stick together for the greater good of accomplishment (not to mention appearances - you don't want the press getting wind of members always in disagreement or the residents will begin to believe in the conspiracy of raised eyebrows), having just one member as the continual dissenting opinion will just cause everyone to say "whatever, it's just Todd being Todd again".

But the truth is, more people agree with him than not & that's where Council sometimes gets it wrong.


TRACY
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John Beagle
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Posted - 04/16/2012 :  1:42:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

"I requested to pull your link off the city web site. We did not have any policy on the content or links we would post. I had them pull all links at the time until we could get a policy in place." - Former Monroe Councilman Tracy Shell

1. Not a smart move to hurt all Monroe Businesses because of politics.
2. It's been 3 years, still no policy. Is it really that complicated?

This little link contradicts your statement that you requested council pull my link. And it wasn't pull all links, it was pull my link.

"...the recommendation is being made to remove your link from the City web site. Several of us are extremely offended by your actions." - Bob Kelley

Note "several of us." Who do you think he means by that? That threat was repeated more than once adding, several of us want to "talk" to you at the next council meeting.

Your meeting with the attorney was to answer the question, can we remove the MSM link from our website without any problems. The attorney advised we pull all the ads rather than just "John's link."

The link was pulled because I ran this ad.


I also ran this at at no charge:

The SaveBulter.org ad was supported by Gov Strickland, Representative John Boehner, Sheriff Jones, Mayor Mulligan, all Butler County Commissioners.

This despite the fact that I gave more than equal time to the opposing side and likely swayed opinion in favor of the lawsuit. A perfect example of this website support for all sides of the issue is these 4 videos, three in favor one against.

My link was indeed removed because I allowed support of all points of view on the SunCoke lawsuit and not just the talking points the city wanted to control. Since then it has been a 'living hell' dealing with people who spin the truth so hard they start believing the lie they are telling.

"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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Happy HarperValley Rez
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Posted - 04/16/2012 :  2:14:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

At the risk of being personally attacked again...
I agree with you and your post.
As the economy continues to be questionable daily (or based on what info you read), the flex room Council has enjoyed for many years is dissipating. People are becoming more aware of local issues, taxes and levies. I predict changes will follow because people are stressed enough with their own life issues - stress and people spending our tax dollars wastefully - then want more money from the public .... will not get very far... this is JMO and thankfully,as a legal tax paying resident of Monroe, I am entitled to it...

quote:
[i]Originally posted by buckeyenut[/i]
[br]While I completely understand that Council needs to stick together for the greater good of accomplishment (not to mention appearances - you don't want the press getting wind of members always in disagreement or the residents will begin to believe in the conspiracy of raised eyebrows), having just one member as the continual dissenting opinion will just cause everyone to say "whatever, it's just Todd being Todd again".

But the truth is, more people agree with him than not & that's where Council sometimes gets it wrong.

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Doc
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Posted - 04/16/2012 :  2:27:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

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John Beagle
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Posted - 04/16/2012 :  3:01:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

It's not just about my link, its about ALL the business links that were removed to punish me.

Punish everyone to get to me. And you wonder why things are the way they are.

Perhaps trying something different will yield better results. Three years and still no linking policy. All council has approved for business is an additional income tax and an admission tax.

Tell me again how you are pro business.

"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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Tracy
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Posted - 04/16/2012 :  3:56:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Originally posted by John Beagle[/i]
[br]It's not just about my link, its about ALL the business links that were removed to punish me.

Can you tell me how many business was hurt by the city removing the links from the web until a policy is created? Also if you are concerned about not having a policy for city web site why have you not ask the city manager to put your site back on? If you did what did he say? Have you offered to assist the city with the web site and ask the council to create a public committee on what the citizens of Monroe would like to have on the web site?

See John, you have many options but you choose to not do any thing. Why is that? You must not think the missing links are that important. Did you bring them up in the business luncheons? Did you send the council emails? Did you call the city Manager? We all know what you are tying to do with your link issue.


Punish everyone to get to me. And you wonder why things are the way they are.

options listed above, besides you are a business man How do you handle controversy at your business. Do you post on a web site or become pro- active and find a solution?

Perhaps trying something different will yield better results. Three years and still no linking policy. All council has approved for business is an additional income tax and an admission tax.

I can not speak to that anymore but I think over the past year they have had a lot on their plate and i am not sure web links were high on the list. Let someone know at the city you would like to help fix this issue but you have to let them know it is an issue.

Tell me again how you are pro business.
that was never a question on this post, Nice change of Topics.


TRACY
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buckeyenut
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Posted - 04/16/2012 :  5:24:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Tracy[/i]
[br]If that was true why did they get reelected?

quote:
[i]Originally posted by buckeyenut[/i]
[br]While I completely understand that Council needs to stick together for the greater good of accomplishment (not to mention appearances - you don't want the press getting wind of members always in disagreement or the residents will begin to believe in the conspiracy of raised eyebrows), having just one member as the continual dissenting opinion will just cause everyone to say "whatever, it's just Todd being Todd again".

But the truth is, more people agree with him than not & that's where Council sometimes gets it wrong.





In my short time running for election, I asked residents who they liked on Council and why. The response were all over the map, from ain't it cool we have a rocker dude, to I like Bob because he's a man's man and knows the game to I'll always vote for the woman. Everyone liked Anna, Suzi commanded the most respect & the mayor was liked for his low key, never make waves attitude. Granted some folks just didn't care all that much who was elected but the majority wanted a more conservative approach and to get as far away from the Suncoke lawsuit as possible. That was shared mostly by the 50+ age group and they all preferred Todd. The under 25 group didn't feel voting would make much of a difference.

I can only assume the four were reelected because what was left was the 25-50 manly, party-on guys who realize only a woman can truly balance a checkbook demographic. I think Pete or Tommy could have affected a change had they been better known in the community. I don't think there will be any doubt Todd will be reelected next year.
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johnwells
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Posted - 04/16/2012 :  11:43:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

This thread really sums up why I started going to the council meetings. I first watched a group accept that one of them didn't even live in the same county and then watched them file a lawsuit against a pretty good employer that would keep another pretty good employer in business.
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JimmyG513
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Posted - 04/17/2012 :  08:42:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by buckeyenut[/i]
[br][quote][i]

I can only assume the four were reelected because what was left was the 25-50 manly, party-on guys who realize only a woman can truly balance a checkbook demographic. I think Pete or Tommy could have affected a change had they been better known in the community. I don't think there will be any doubt Todd will be reelected next year.




You complete discount the outcome of the election with your analysis. Incumbents were voted back in for a reason; most are happy with them. This rally against SunCoke isn't the town battle cry that some people want to make it out to be.
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JimmyG513
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Posted - 04/17/2012 :  08:46:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by John Beagle[/i]
[br]

My link was indeed removed because I allowed support of all points of view on the SunCoke lawsuit and not just the talking points the city wanted to control. Since then it has been a 'living hell' dealing with people who spin the truth so hard they start believing the lie they are telling.



You keep telling yourself this to try and make yourself some martyr but it doesn't make it anymore true.

The fact of the matter is the City is under NO OBLIGATION to promote your website for you. None. Especially when your business isn't located in Monroe and pays no taxes into Monroe.

You want to talk about spinning the truth? That is all you and your group of posting names/employees do. Spin YOUR version of the truth here and the most clear version you have of what the town thinks of you and that spin were the results your friend whose campaign you managed did in the election. he didn't do to well and your connection to him DID NOT HELP.

Be honest John, working for the city of Monroe is beneath you. Your words. Now hurry up and delete them so you can spin spin spin.
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zapp2525
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Posted - 04/17/2012 :  08:53:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by JimmyG513[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by buckeyenut[/i]
[br][quote][i]

I can only assume the four were reelected because what was left was the 25-50 manly, party-on guys who realize only a woman can truly balance a checkbook demographic. I think Pete or Tommy could have affected a change had they been better known in the community. I don't think there will be any doubt Todd will be reelected next year.




You complete discount the outcome of the election with your analysis. Incumbents were voted back in for a reason; most are happy with them. This rally against SunCoke isn't the town battle cry that some people want to make it out to be.




If only the town's people would know, how much was spent.....and what little has come of it they would care.

I bet most people have no idea that over a million was thrown away. And if they did we would have different people in those seats on the hill.
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Hornet89
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Posted - 04/21/2012 :  7:32:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Seriously? Tracy,Todd,John.....who really cares? Childish arguing and rants. Grow up, you look like fools on here.
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John Beagle
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Posted - 04/22/2012 :  09:45:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Hornet89[/i]
[br]Seriously? Tracy,Todd,John.....who really cares? Childish arguing and rants. Grow up, you look like fools on here.


Yea, seriously H89. I believe in standing up for what I believe in and so do you. Or did you forget SB5 and your little tirade against anyone who didn't agree with you.

Please don't belittle the conversation with your inane comment. Your much smarter than that.

"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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Hornet89
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Posted - 04/22/2012 :  10:04:18 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

ok john, whatever you say, I dont post much....mainly because every thread turns into petty argument....and what you consider a little tirade, i consider defending my job, my pay, my fellow FOP brothers...I'm Middletown Police FOP president, its my job to defend my fellow officers. It wasnt as big an issue as your link being removed I guess.
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John Beagle
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Posted - 04/22/2012 :  10:46:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Hornet89[/i]
[br]ok john, whatever you say, I dont post much....mainly because every thread turns into petty argument....and what you consider a little tirade, i consider defending my job, my pay, my fellow FOP brothers...I'm Middletown Police FOP president, its my job to defend my fellow officers. It wasnt as big an issue as your link being removed I guess.



Yea, your way above 'petty.'

1. Ok whatever you say - petty
2. I don't post much - only 4531 times - petty

Then you go on to say your side of an argument is more important. Ok, I see how it is. You're part of the establishment that says since I'm a government employee you have to listen to me. Anything you say is petty.

The rest of us who live unprotected by government unions need to be quiet and not question the government.

No Chris, not every thread turns into 'petty arguement'. Maybe you ought to real all the threads and not just one or two that have sincere but heated discussions.

Don't you live in Middletown? Let me recommend a forum in your city: http://middletownusa.com/forum/


"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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Hornet89
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Posted - 04/22/2012 :  12:03:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

You blow things way out of proportion John. I lived in monroe up until fri at 5 pm when I closed on a house in franklin twsp...and I explained why my side of SB5 was important to me. And yes I dont post much anymore, used to alot. I grew up in Monroe, my family lives in Monroe, I love Monroe....I graduated a hornet and I worked as a police officer for monroe pd way back when, but since you have told me where to go, I'll stay off your site John. But make no mistake, Ill always be a hornet.
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John Beagle
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Posted - 04/22/2012 :  12:31:14 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

"You blow things way out of proportion John"

Thanks, that's my job. lol

Otherwise it gets a bit boring around here.

"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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