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John Beagle
Advanced Member

USA
10560 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  3:15:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 11:42 PM
To: john@mainstreetmonroe.com
Subject: Sent From The Voice by Bob Kelley

Hello John Beagle

You received the following message from: Bob Kelley (killertruc@yahoo.com)

At: http://www.mainstreetmonroe.com/voice/

the recommendation is being made to remove your link from the City web site. Several of us are extremely offended by your actions.
MainStreetMonroe.com is news of, for and by the people of Monroe, Ohio.

summerlover
Senior Member

3600 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  3:25:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit summerlover's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
What'd you do?
Beadiful Moments...every moment is a gift.
www.Beadifulmoments.com
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ADH
Senior Member

3126 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  3:25:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
Is this about the savebutler.org ad?

"Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself."
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John Beagle
Advanced Member

USA
10560 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  3:38:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
Bob,

Are you speaking for the entire council? Because if you are it sounds like council wants to approve advertising for Main Street Monroe.

Now let me get this straight. As a public official, you are telling me to remove a paid advertisement from my website or risk losing recognition for Main Street Monroe, is that correct?

I do not necessarily support this advertiser. Main Street Monroe has always allowed all points of view. For example, I didn't support Obama for president. But I allowed Obama discussions links, even though I disagree. I don't agree with global warming, but it is there from the ad council. (I don't get paid for that one)

I think it is better for both sides to be heard on this issue. If your side has more merit, the intelligent informed people of Monroe will decide whether or not to get behind you in your decision. It's not just this issue, it's all issues, school and city. Since I am already Google News Syndicated, unlinking is no longer an issue there. But it does say that the city does not recognize my website, and that hurts considering all the effort I put into it. Also compare my website with the harm the Middletown Journal has inflicted both the city and schools. They openly support the coke plant. Yet you are going to keep their link?

If you are not speaking for the entire city council, let me hear from those who disagree with Bob Kelley. Who believe it is in the best interest to hear all your constituents, not just the ones who agree with you.


John
MainStreetMonroe.com is news of, for and by the people of Monroe, Ohio.
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Sports Mom
Advanced Member

9475 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  3:42:17 PM  Show Profile  Visit Sports Mom's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
What actions is he referring to exactly?
www.fighther.com
Make Strength Your Favorite Accessory
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cmsquare
Senior Member

USA
2572 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  3:47:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
I am 100% against the coke plant.

I am also 100% for you being able to accept advertising to whomever you so choose, it is your website. The idea that you have to uphold some other entities values on something private just doesn't make any sense to me.

I don't see where the town would get involved over advertising on a private website.

How critical is the voice in the outcome of this battle? Judging from these reactions...more important than I thought.
"I brought it back, not cm"
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John Beagle
Advanced Member

USA
10560 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  3:48:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
This Sponsor Ad


Do they not have a right to advertise here? Or the Journal? Are our minds so small they can't hear all points of view?

MainStreetMonroe.com is news of, for and by the people of Monroe, Ohio.
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Monroe Pride
New Member

45 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  3:58:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
Is the recommendation to remove ALL outside links or just the ones that Bob & others (if there are others) feel they need to censor?
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Bretland
Senior Member

1712 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  4:05:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
John,

Hang in there? I think it's proper business practice for you to carry the ad AND to publicly "call out" a City official to clarify a position that they take against your site.

Monroe is in that "good old boy" mode again. I stated that in a prior post and I got hammered about it.............but it's true.





"There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary, and those that don't."
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John Beagle
Advanced Member

USA
10560 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  4:05:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
Monroepride,

Not sure. I think some on council are upset we are having this discussion because they have made such a major committment to the opposition of the plant.

Still, we have to have a debate. What Bob wants is to throw water on the debate.
MainStreetMonroe.com is news of, for and by the people of Monroe, Ohio.
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John Beagle
Advanced Member

USA
10560 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  4:08:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
Bretland,

I see the land where free speech is frowned upon. And that, my friend, is scary.
MainStreetMonroe.com is news of, for and by the people of Monroe, Ohio.
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Bretland
Senior Member

1712 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  4:17:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
John,

That's the reason for my post. Council should make decisions as a group and communicate them as a group. If they're all upset about your ad, that's OK (they are fighting the SunCoke plant) but they shouldn't turn their ire on you. Saying you personally support that petition is ridiculous and shows how nervous some folks might be getting about the issue.

MSM has always been a fair and open medium for us to share our opinions. In fact, those taking you to task have used the Voice as much as anybody to push agendas and causes. If you are in disfavor with the City - who will be next??
"There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary, and those that don't."
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John Beagle
Advanced Member

USA
10560 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  4:20:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
It gets better. Message from Bob

I am saying that your being paid to raise support to increase our legal expenses. It's your right to sell space to whomever you like and control your site as you see fit just as it is our right to control the content on our site. I promise you and anyone you want to copy on these emails that I will do absolutely everything in my power to have your link removed from our site as I am charged with defending the cities interests and I don't feel intentionally supporting people that are being paid to raise our legal fee's is in our best interest.

You do whatever you think is right for your site and I will do the same.
Sent from my BlackBerry smartphone with Nextel Direct Connect (Bob Kelley)
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ADH
Senior Member

3126 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  4:30:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
quote:
[i]Originally posted by cmsquare[/i]
[br]I am 100% against the coke plant.

I am also 100% for you being able to accept advertising to whomever you so choose, it is your website. The idea that you have to uphold some other entities values on something private just doesn't make any sense to me.

I don't see where the town would get involved over advertising on a private website.

How critical is the voice in the outcome of this battle? Judging from these reactions...more important than I thought.




I agree that a site that a privately owned site should be able to advertise whatever they'd like.

But on the other hand, why should the city (any city) endorse a website that is not owned or controlled by that city (whether they like the ads or not)?

I'm not giving an opinion one way or the other. Just asking what I feel is a logical question.
"Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself."
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John Beagle
Advanced Member

USA
10560 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  4:38:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
It is of course at the sole descression of the city to endors a busines on their website. I like to think that in general, we have a good working relationship with the city and the schools in Monroe.

I will let my 10 years of work stand for itself.
MainStreetMonroe.com is news of, for and by the people of Monroe, Ohio.
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ClarkWestern1
Average Member

USA
936 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  4:40:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
City of Trenton did the same thing to Trenton Talk-they don't like opposing views.
"Just spittin out words to see where they splatter."
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ADH
Senior Member

3126 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  4:50:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
Honestly not sure who I feel is "right."

I don't think that for Bob it is solely about it being an opposing view (although I am not at all speaking for him so I may be wrong), but that it is more so because it is something that is costing the city a lot of money...and the more there is a fight "for," the more money Monroe has to spend to fight "against."

I actually think your "it gets better" post, John, gives some good insight on why Bob feels the way he does on the issue.
"Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself."
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Les Lofton
Average Member

1006 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  5:35:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
I thought the city web site was for the use of all our citizens and not just the ones who agree with city council bullies. Council needs to realize that they do have constituents who are against spending to fight the coke plant.
It's almost worth the Great Depression, to learn how little our big men know.
-Will Rogers
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ADH
Senior Member

3126 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  5:40:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
Sounds like the city is saying the same thing about Main Street Monroe as Main Street Monroe is saying about their ads:

"Some of the links made available to you through the City of Monroe's website will allow you to leave the City's site. Please be aware that the Internet sites available through these links, and the materials that you may find there, are not under control of the City.

The City of Monroe cannot and does not make any guarantee to you about these sites or the materials available there. The fact that the City has made these links available to you is not an endorsement or recommendation to you by the City of any of these sites or any material found there. The City is providing these links only as a convenience to you."

http://www.monroeohio.org/info/local.cfm

I guess I'd be curious to hear what the other Council members think...other than just Bob's opinion.
"Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself."
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mypinion
Junior Member

261 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  5:44:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
II believe this site is fair. Not everyone agrees and that is what makes the site interesting. If the city council wishes to pull the site at their discretion, then that is fine. What I don't agree with is the hard handed tactic of making a statement that if you don't remove your sponsor ,than we shall remove the site. Sounds like blackmail to me! JMO
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webski
Average Member

USA
1491 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  5:45:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
la la la
"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut."
Ernest Hemingway
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Monroe Pride
New Member

45 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  6:13:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
Are we to believe that the Middletown Journal, Cincinnati Enquire & Pulse Journal get the same threat from Bob & "others" everytime they run an article supporting the Coke Plant? For some reason I doubt it.
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webski
Average Member

USA
1491 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  6:15:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
The Voice is for both sides of the aisle, don't have to like it but it is why I love this place. Thanks again John
"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut."
Ernest Hemingway
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JacobTyler
Junior Member

495 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  7:10:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
It's Monroe's website, they can do what they want with it; just as you are all allowing Mr. Beagle to do with his.
Hi - I'm a SPAMMER, so you can ignore me
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Bretland
Senior Member

1712 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  7:42:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
"John made a conscience business decision to take their money, was it because he's broke or was it because he wanted more controversy?"

That's a reactive retort from someone that's been put on the spot and really doesn't have a valid argument to make. John makes decisions everyday about his web site and what organizations he sells ad space to. I doubt that this one ad makes or breaks his expenses for the month.

I don't know John personally, but I doubt that he's wanting to purposely hurt his long term relationship with the City. He merely provides a service and in my opinion is being made a scapegoat because he doesn't bow to the City. I also feel that the City is taking the Coke Plant issue and causing bad feelings within the local community when the banter should be between the City of Monroe and AK.

Are we not above accusing individuals of trying to derail the Coke Plant proceedings? If the case is as strong (in the City's favor) as has been stated here on the Voice then what's the problem? Perhaps there's been too much discussion of the issue on the Voice by Council members. Removing a "link" to MSM will be great drama at best but will have absolutely no impact on MSM or how the final Coke Plant negotiations turn out.

John, don't ever ban anyone from Council from posting on the Voice. Contrary to what's been said they really would "give a d**".
"There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary, and those that don't."
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Respector
Average Member

982 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  8:20:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
Maybe the city should also buy advertising space on MSM. Let's see....how would it read?
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Les Lofton
Average Member

1006 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  8:27:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bob Kelley[/i]
[br]There have been many discussions for and against this coke plant. The City has drawn a line in the sand so to speak and we do not support the coke plant. We do not support the save butler site. I have no issue with two sided debates and have engaged in many of them. I have been for some things and against others.

John profits from hits, good or bad, right or wrong. He profits from conflict and opposing opinions, he profits from all of us everyday spewing off about our lives and what we like and don't like about them.

We(the city) drew a line in the sand not to support the coke plant, that means we also do not support efforts against that position. John made a conscience business decision to take their money, was it because he's broke or was it because he wanted more controversy? If you choose to buy into the cry foul, "my freedom of speech has been infringed upon" that's your right, I just don't happen to see it that way. It wreaks more of war profiteering to me, but that's just me.


In answer to another question...all links. We are a government agency. Our City Manager warned us that allowing outside links would be bad, but we sided with John instead of listening to Mr. Brock. I was at the front of that movement so John you may be right, my judgment is not the best sometimes but I am man enough to admit when I am wrong and deal with the mistake. My vote will be to remove all non-governmental, commercial links as suggested by another member in this conversation as was originally recommended. Bill if you read this you owe me an "I told you so".

As for you John, ban me, don't ban me "insert Rhett Butler text here".
Rhett Butler: I'm very drunk and I intend on getting still drunker before this evening's over.
It's almost worth the Great Depression, to learn how little our big men know.
-Will Rogers
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JacobTyler
Junior Member

495 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  8:28:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
As a matter of fact, that is an expertly envisioned and created ad, although maintaining an air of simplicity. It is so convicing that I may in fact have to sign the petition as the ad demands.
Hi - I'm a SPAMMER, so you can ignore me
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SoloTSi97
Junior Member

USA
216 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  8:59:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit SoloTSi97's Homepage  Send SoloTSi97 an AOL message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
quote:
[i]Originally posted by JacobTyler[/i]
[br]It's Monroe's website, they can do what they want with it; just as you are all allowing Mr. Beagle to do with his.


Exactly. I don't see what the big deal is ... IMHO, the fact that the City of Monroe links their site to a privately owned site implies (to me) that they endorse/support/are affiliated with that site somehow. If they decide to no longer endorse/support/be affiliated with a site for any reason, they remove the link. So what?

Similarly, linking to savebutler.org implies (again, to me) that MainStreetMonroe (and, by extension, Mr. Beagle) supports that cause. More power to you if you do, but it doesn't surprise me that the City of Monroe doesn't want to link to a site that endorses/supports a position that the city officially opposes. If the City of Monroe appears to support/endorse a site that appears to support/endorse a viewpoint that they publicly oppose ... that just doesn't make sense to me.

I don't see why people are so worked up over it ... displaying the ad is completely within Mr. Beagle's prerogative, just as it is within the city's prerogative to include or exclude a link to MSM.

Just my $.02.

-Bob
Cub Scout Pack 54, Monroe Church of the Nazarene
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Keith50
Junior Member

253 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  9:28:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
quote:
[i]Originally posted by SoloTSi97[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by JacobTyler[/i]
[br]It's Monroe's website, they can do what they want with it; just as you are all allowing Mr. Beagle to do with his.


Exactly. I don't see what the big deal is ... IMHO, the fact that the City of Monroe links their site to a privately owned site implies (to me) that they endorse/support/are affiliated with that site somehow. If they decide to no longer endorse/support/be affiliated with a site for any reason, they remove the link. So what?

Similarly, linking to savebutler.org implies (again, to me) that MainStreetMonroe (and, by extension, Mr. Beagle) supports that cause. More power to you if you do, but it doesn't surprise me that the City of Monroe doesn't want to link to a site that endorses/supports a position that the city officially opposes. If the City of Monroe appears to support/endorse a site that appears to support/endorse a viewpoint that they publicly oppose ... that just doesn't make sense to me.

I don't see why people are so worked up over it ... displaying the ad is completely within Mr. Beagle's prerogative, just as it is within the city's prerogative to include or exclude a link to MSM.

Just my $.02.

-Bob

Amen,iam against the coke plant but he has a right to put ads on here as he please's. my$.02.
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JacobTyler
Junior Member

495 Posts
Posted - 04/18/2009 :  10:21:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
It would be a riot to see what would happen if JB put up "Pro-smoking and pro-drinking" ads. That's an opposing viewpoint (for some), may cause tension.
Hi - I'm a SPAMMER, so you can ignore me
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Instigator
Senior Member

3225 Posts
Posted - 04/19/2009 :  12:09:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
This is definitely the best topic I have seen on here for a while. I'm not sure if John has leg to stand on and I don't think taking it off will hurt MSM. Council on the other hand are looking pretty ridiculous waiting until John put an add on they do not support. This decision should have been made long before now and should not be made because of one add. I take more offence to the Mike Davis DVD On Sale Now add than the savebutler.org add. How long has this add been on here and it continues to be on sale? Taking the MSM link off the site at this point in the game only tells me its not looking good for the city. Those who think MSM should stay on the site you need to email council and let them know how you feel. http://www.monroeohio.org/info/local.cfm
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ADH
Senior Member

3126 Posts
Posted - 04/19/2009 :  12:12:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
I completely agree with everything you said, except that an ad being displayed on this site implies John or MSM endorses or supports the message. The ads are there solely to make money, regardless of the message.

I personally think it is a bad idea for "private" sites to be linked from the City's page (and not because of this particular issue). JMO, of course, but I agree with Solo...in that case it does imply the site and it's content is endorsed, whether the message at the bottom of the page says so or not.

This site and the City's website are two very different things.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by SoloTSi97[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by JacobTyler[/i]
[br]It's Monroe's website, they can do what they want with it; just as you are all allowing Mr. Beagle to do with his.


Exactly. I don't see what the big deal is ... IMHO, the fact that the City of Monroe links their site to a privately owned site implies (to me) that they endorse/support/are affiliated with that site somehow. If they decide to no longer endorse/support/be affiliated with a site for any reason, they remove the link. So what?

Similarly, linking to savebutler.org implies (again, to me) that MainStreetMonroe (and, by extension, Mr. Beagle) supports that cause. More power to you if you do, but it doesn't surprise me that the City of Monroe doesn't want to link to a site that endorses/supports a position that the city officially opposes. If the City of Monroe appears to support/endorse a site that appears to support/endorse a viewpoint that they publicly oppose ... that just doesn't make sense to me.

I don't see why people are so worked up over it ... displaying the ad is completely within Mr. Beagle's prerogative, just as it is within the city's prerogative to include or exclude a link to MSM.

Just my $.02.

-Bob
"Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself."
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Suzi Rubin
Junior Member

328 Posts
Posted - 04/19/2009 :  12:32:21 AM  Show Profile  Visit Suzi Rubin's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
Wow! I've been away all day at Beauty and The Beast and look what I've missed! I answered Bob this morning before I left:

*****
On 4/18/09 10:08 AM, "Suzi Rubin" <rubins@monroeohio.org> wrote:

If thats the case, then I think we should remove all links to outside websites as Bill Brock suggested before. I dont think we should be in the business of controlling the media or the message. If we want to link others to community news, we have to take the good with the bad. We can control what we say on our city website, but we have no business dictating to others what they can/cannot say.

************

I haven't talked to any others on Council, so not sure where they stand. I am certainly committed to the city's action against SunCoke, but I am also definitely NOT in favor of censoring anyone's site, directly or through punitive actions. Our community is best served by having all voices heard and everyone has a right to their own opinion (including Dexter and AK Steel/SunCoke).

I am a very firm believer in freedom of speech and of the press.

*********

Shameless plug:
Go see Beauty and The Beast on Sunday at 2:30 if you haven't seen it already (and even if you have). It's really a great show and I think you'll be amazed at the talent we have right here in Monroe!
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loveyourneighbor
Junior Member

USA
425 Posts
Posted - 04/19/2009 :  08:50:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
If ads on this site imply that John endorses that cause or product, does that mean that any political ad or product ad on TV means that network endorses them? I think not. This website is part of how John makes a living just like the TV ads are how networks earn money. Plain and simple. If we allowed only ads and comments on this website that John and I agree with, this site would be boring and would cease to exist.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by ADH[/i]
[br]I completely agree with everything you said, except that an ad being displayed on this site implies John or MSM endorses or supports the message. The ads are there solely to make money, regardless of the message.

I personally think it is a bad idea for "private" sites to be linked from the City's page (and not because of this particular issue). JMO, of course, but I agree with Solo...in that case it does imply the site and it's content is endorsed, whether the message at the bottom of the page says so or not.

This site and the City's website are two very different things.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by SoloTSi97[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by JacobTyler[/i]
[br]It's Monroe's website, they can do what they want with it; just as you are all allowing Mr. Beagle to do with his.


Exactly. I don't see what the big deal is ... IMHO, the fact that the City of Monroe links their site to a privately owned site implies (to me) that they endorse/support/are affiliated with that site somehow. If they decide to no longer endorse/support/be affiliated with a site for any reason, they remove the link. So what?

Similarly, linking to savebutler.org implies (again, to me) that MainStreetMonroe (and, by extension, Mr. Beagle) supports that cause. More power to you if you do, but it doesn't surprise me that the City of Monroe doesn't want to link to a site that endorses/supports a position that the city officially opposes. If the City of Monroe appears to support/endorse a site that appears to support/endorse a viewpoint that they publicly oppose ... that just doesn't make sense to me.

I don't see why people are so worked up over it ... displaying the ad is completely within Mr. Beagle's prerogative, just as it is within the city's prerogative to include or exclude a link to MSM.

Just my $.02.

-Bob
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Star_Rider
Advanced Member

USA
8643 Posts
Posted - 04/19/2009 :  09:58:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
So true.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by loveyourneighbor[/i]
[br]If ads on this site imply that John endorses that cause or product, does that mean that any political ad or product ad on TV means that network endorses them? I think not. This website is part of how John makes a living just like the TV ads are how networks earn money. Plain and simple. If we allowed only ads and comments on this website that John and I agree with, this site would be boring and would cease to exist.
Spes Mea in Deo Est
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Jane Smith
Average Member

1453 Posts
Posted - 04/19/2009 :  10:58:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
http://www.belllegalgroup.com/CM/Environmental-Law/Air-Pollution.asp
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JacobTyler
Junior Member

495 Posts
Posted - 04/19/2009 :  11:08:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
quote:
[i]Originally posted by loveyourneighbor[/i]
[br]If ads on this site imply that John endorses that cause or product, does that mean that any political ad or product ad on TV means that network endorses them? I think not. This website is part of how John makes a living just like the TV ads are how networks earn money. Plain and simple. If we allowed only ads and comments on this website that John and I agree with, this site would be boring and would cease to exist.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by ADH[/i]
[br]I completely agree with everything you said, except that an ad being displayed on this site implies John or MSM endorses or supports the message. The ads are there solely to make money, regardless of the message.

I personally think it is a bad idea for "private" sites to be linked from the City's page (and not because of this particular issue). JMO, of course, but I agree with Solo...in that case it does imply the site and it's content is endorsed, whether the message at the bottom of the page says so or not.

This site and the City's website are two very different things.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by SoloTSi97[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by JacobTyler[/i]
[br]It's Monroe's website, they can do what they want with it; just as you are all allowing Mr. Beagle to do with his.


Exactly. I don't see what the big deal is ... IMHO, the fact that the City of Monroe links their site to a privately owned site implies (to me) that they endorse/support/are affiliated with that site somehow. If they decide to no longer endorse/support/be affiliated with a site for any reason, they remove the link. So what?

Similarly, linking to savebutler.org implies (again, to me) that MainStreetMonroe (and, by extension, Mr. Beagle) supports that cause. More power to you if you do, but it doesn't surprise me that the City of Monroe doesn't want to link to a site that endorses/supports a position that the city officially opposes. If the City of Monroe appears to support/endorse a site that appears to support/endorse a viewpoint that they publicly oppose ... that just doesn't make sense to me.

I don't see why people are so worked up over it ... displaying the ad is completely within Mr. Beagle's prerogative, just as it is within the city's prerogative to include or exclude a link to MSM.

Just my $.02.

-Bob






Following the same logic, discovery channel would run an ad for lumber companies and others partaking in deforestation or polution just for the cash. Those shows wouldn't want to be associated with that so the network says "hit the road," and find an ad that fits the demographic better.

Remember the commercial where the elderly couple are watching TV and the home theater commercial comes on freaking them out with its loudness and craziness? Same thing (could not find a youtube link, sorry). It's all about the demographics.
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cmsquare
Senior Member

USA
2572 Posts
Posted - 04/19/2009 :  11:17:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
I think a distinction needs to be made.

There is a difference between paid advertising and linking to someone's site.

Taking a $$ from someone to advertise their cause is in no way shape or form an endorsement of that cause.


Now posting a free link to someone's website, I would consider that an endorsement, and it's the cities right to take back that endorsement if they see fit. I'm not sure what good it would do, this place seems pretty well established to me.
"I brought it back, not cm"
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ADH
Senior Member

3126 Posts
Posted - 04/19/2009 :  11:51:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
Did you read Solo's post and then my post in response to that? I said exactly what you said below. We agree.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by loveyourneighbor[/i]
[br]If ads on this site imply that John endorses that cause or product, does that mean that any political ad or product ad on TV means that network endorses them? I think not. This website is part of how John makes a living just like the TV ads are how networks earn money. Plain and simple. If we allowed only ads and comments on this website that John and I agree with, this site would be boring and would cease to exist.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by ADH[/i]
[br]I completely agree with everything you said, except that an ad being displayed on this site implies John or MSM endorses or supports the message. The ads are there solely to make money, regardless of the message.

I personally think it is a bad idea for "private" sites to be linked from the City's page (and not because of this particular issue). JMO, of course, but I agree with Solo...in that case it does imply the site and it's content is endorsed, whether the message at the bottom of the page says so or not.

This site and the City's website are two very different things.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by SoloTSi97[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by JacobTyler[/i]
[br]It's Monroe's website, they can do what they want with it; just as you are all allowing Mr. Beagle to do with his.


Exactly. I don't see what the big deal is ... IMHO, the fact that the City of Monroe links their site to a privately owned site implies (to me) that they endorse/support/are affiliated with that site somehow. If they decide to no longer endorse/support/be affiliated with a site for any reason, they remove the link. So what?

Similarly, linking to savebutler.org implies (again, to me) that MainStreetMonroe (and, by extension, Mr. Beagle) supports that cause. More power to you if you do, but it doesn't surprise me that the City of Monroe doesn't want to link to a site that endorses/supports a position that the city officially opposes. If the City of Monroe appears to support/endorse a site that appears to support/endorse a viewpoint that they publicly oppose ... that just doesn't make sense to me.

I don't see why people are so worked up over it ... displaying the ad is completely within Mr. Beagle's prerogative, just as it is within the city's prerogative to include or exclude a link to MSM.

Just my $.02.

-Bob
"Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself."
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ADH
Senior Member

3126 Posts
Posted - 04/19/2009 :  11:52:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
I agree. I thought that is what I said, but maybe not...lol

quote:
[i]Originally posted by cmsquare[/i]
[br]I think a distinction needs to be made.

There is a difference between paid advertising and linking to someone's site.

Taking a $$ from someone to advertise their cause is in no way shape or form an endorsement of that cause.


Now posting a free link to someone's website, I would consider that an endorsement, and it's the cities right to take back that endorsement if they see fit. I'm not sure what good it would do, this place seems pretty well established to me.
"Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself."
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Instigator
Senior Member

3225 Posts
Posted - 04/19/2009 :  3:16:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
The city has the right to take MSM off their site and all links that are not city, county, State or the local school district should be taken off. You can not take MSM off and not the others. I think its a shame that they waited until they did not like an add before wanting to take MSM off their site.
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No money
Senior Member

1913 Posts
Posted - 04/19/2009 :  6:07:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
If people here don't like who he advertises for you have a simple choice, just don't look at the site, make your own site and run it the way you want it.
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Instigator
Senior Member

3225 Posts
Posted - 04/19/2009 :  7:03:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
I think the city should add Monroechat.com and The Journal News to their site.
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ADH
Senior Member

3126 Posts
Posted - 04/19/2009 :  8:03:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
No Money, that isn't even what this is about.
"Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself."
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No money
Senior Member

1913 Posts
Posted - 04/19/2009 :  10:44:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
Of course it is, they want John to remove "savebutler.org" and he has a right to do what he wants, it's his site.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by ADH[/i]
[br]No Money, that isn't even what this is about.
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ADH
Senior Member

3126 Posts
Posted - 04/19/2009 :  11:02:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
"If people here don't like who he advertises for you have a simple choice, just don't look at the site, make your own site and run it the way you want it."

I believe Bob did address the fact that John has every right to leave the advertisement on his site. I don't think that it is as simple as Bob not liking something on the site, but that there is an advertisement that could cost the city money and the city has a link to that on their website.

Not saying I agree or disagree with that particular logic, I just think there is a bit more to it than what you suggested in your original post (whether or not the site should be linked from the City's website).

I think he's attempting to do exactly what you state...run his own site (the City's site) the way he (as a representative of the city) wants. I personally don't think private sites should be linked regardless of what is on them.

I have a hard time believing I'm partially in agreement with Bob, but it seems I might be.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by No money[/i]
[br]Of course it is, they want John to remove "savebutler.org" and he has a right to do what he wants, it's his site.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by ADH[/i]
[br]No Money, that isn't even what this is about.
"Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself."
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No money
Senior Member

1913 Posts
Posted - 04/19/2009 :  11:08:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
Makes no difference if he supports or endorses the site and content or not, also I don't understand how can this site be considered private when any person from any place can sign up and use it.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by ADH[/i]
[br]I completely agree with everything you said, except that an ad being displayed on this site implies John or MSM endorses or supports the message. The ads are there solely to make money, regardless of the message.

I personally think it is a bad idea for "private" sites to be linked from the City's page (and not because of this particular issue). JMO, of course, but I agree with Solo...in that case it does imply the site and it's content is endorsed, whether the message at the bottom of the page says so or not.

This site and the City's website are two very different things.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by SoloTSi97[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by JacobTyler[/i]
[br]It's Monroe's website, they can do what they want with it; just as you are all allowing Mr. Beagle to do with his.


Exactly. I don't see what the big deal is ... IMHO, the fact that the City of Monroe links their site to a privately owned site implies (to me) that they endorse/support/are affiliated with that site somehow. If they decide to no longer endorse/support/be affiliated with a site for any reason, they remove the link. So what?

Similarly, linking to savebutler.org implies (again, to me) that MainStreetMonroe (and, by extension, Mr. Beagle) supports that cause. More power to you if you do, but it doesn't surprise me that the City of Monroe doesn't want to link to a site that endorses/supports a position that the city officially opposes. If the City of Monroe appears to support/endorse a site that appears to support/endorse a viewpoint that they publicly oppose ... that just doesn't make sense to me.

I don't see why people are so worked up over it ... displaying the ad is completely within Mr. Beagle's prerogative, just as it is within the city's prerogative to include or exclude a link to MSM.

Just my $.02.

-Bob
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ADH
Senior Member

3126 Posts
Posted - 04/19/2009 :  11:12:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
Privately OWNED and OPERATED.

And how does it make no difference if the City endorses or supports something when we're discussing linking to it from the City's website?

Or are you talking about John and MSM? Having a hard time following you.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by No money[/i]
[br]Makes no difference if he supports or endorses the site and content or not, also I don't understand how can this site be considered private when any person from any place can sign up and use it.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by ADH[/i]
[br]I completely agree with everything you said, except that an ad being displayed on this site implies John or MSM endorses or supports the message. The ads are there solely to make money, regardless of the message.

I personally think it is a bad idea for "private" sites to be linked from the City's page (and not because of this particular issue). JMO, of course, but I agree with Solo...in that case it does imply the site and it's content is endorsed, whether the message at the bottom of the page says so or not.

This site and the City's website are two very different things.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by SoloTSi97[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by JacobTyler[/i]
[br]It's Monroe's website, they can do what they want with it; just as you are all allowing Mr. Beagle to do with his.


Exactly. I don't see what the big deal is ... IMHO, the fact that the City of Monroe links their site to a privately owned site implies (to me) that they endorse/support/are affiliated with that site somehow. If they decide to no longer endorse/support/be affiliated with a site for any reason, they remove the link. So what?

Similarly, linking to savebutler.org implies (again, to me) that MainStreetMonroe (and, by extension, Mr. Beagle) supports that cause. More power to you if you do, but it doesn't surprise me that the City of Monroe doesn't want to link to a site that endorses/supports a position that the city officially opposes. If the City of Monroe appears to support/endorse a site that appears to support/endorse a viewpoint that they publicly oppose ... that just doesn't make sense to me.

I don't see why people are so worked up over it ... displaying the ad is completely within Mr. Beagle's prerogative, just as it is within the city's prerogative to include or exclude a link to MSM.

Just my $.02.

-Bob
"Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself."
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No money
Senior Member

1913 Posts
Posted - 04/19/2009 :  11:20:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
I'm talking about John and MSM and I do support him.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by ADH[/i]
[br]Privately OWNED and OPERATED.

And how does it make no difference if the City endorses or supports something when we're discussing linking to it from the City's website?

Or are you talking about John and MSM? Having a hard time following you.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by No money[/i]
[br]Makes no difference if he supports or endorses the site and content or not, also I don't understand how can this site be considered private when any person from any place can sign up and use it.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by ADH[/i]
[br]I completely agree with everything you said, except that an ad being displayed on this site implies John or MSM endorses or supports the message. The ads are there solely to make money, regardless of the message.

I personally think it is a bad idea for "private" sites to be linked from the City's page (and not because of this particular issue). JMO, of course, but I agree with Solo...in that case it does imply the site and it's content is endorsed, whether the message at the bottom of the page says so or not.

This site and the City's website are two very different things.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by SoloTSi97[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by JacobTyler[/i]
[br]It's Monroe's website, they can do what they want with it; just as you are all allowing Mr. Beagle to do with his.


Exactly. I don't see what the big deal is ... IMHO, the fact that the City of Monroe links their site to a privately owned site implies (to me) that they endorse/support/are affiliated with that site somehow. If they decide to no longer endorse/support/be affiliated with a site for any reason, they remove the link. So what?

Similarly, linking to savebutler.org implies (again, to me) that MainStreetMonroe (and, by extension, Mr. Beagle) supports that cause. More power to you if you do, but it doesn't surprise me that the City of Monroe doesn't want to link to a site that endorses/supports a position that the city officially opposes. If the City of Monroe appears to support/endorse a site that appears to support/endorse a viewpoint that they publicly oppose ... that just doesn't make sense to me.

I don't see why people are so worked up over it ... displaying the ad is completely within Mr. Beagle's prerogative, just as it is within the city's prerogative to include or exclude a link to MSM.

Just my $.02.

-Bob
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ADH
Senior Member

3126 Posts
Posted - 04/19/2009 :  11:27:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse
Then we are in agreement there.

Obviously those who have responded "disagreeing" with me did not clearly read Solo's post and then my post in response. I said I agreed with his entire post EXCEPT the part about John endorsing the ads on his site. Meaning I DO NOT believe that John/MSM endorse an ad just because it is on the site.

Hope it's clear now...
"Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself."
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About the Editor: John Beagle started Main Street Monroe in 1998, he also started  a b2b company, Rentacomputer.com in 1987, Middletown USA in 2002, Computer Service Now in 1990, Camera Security Now in 1999, Xponex Media in 2003, and the Tech Army Organization in 2004.