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 Monroe has posted update on the suncoke issue
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Tracy
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Posted - 08/28/2009 :  3:04:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

The city of Monroe has posted an update on the actions concerning Suncoke

http://www.monroeohio.org/info/news_event.cfm?ID=353


TRACY

Murdock
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Posted - 08/28/2009 :  3:08:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

What's the price tag associated with these continued efforts. I read this fast and perhaps missed the figure, if so I apolgize. If not, can you please let the taxpayers know how much more of our money will be spent on this effort???
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cmsquare
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Posted - 08/28/2009 :  3:31:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I commend the city for standing up against big business who thinks the rules don't apply to them. They are fighting the good fight, whatever they are spending it is worth it.
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sportsnut
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Posted - 08/28/2009 :  3:34:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I concur cm. Thank you Monroe for fighting for our health and property values.
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MonroeWatch
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Posted - 08/28/2009 :  4:34:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

That is a complete lack of understanding about what is actually being responsible.

Is it responsible to bail out GM then let them go into bankruptcy? It was inevitable that GM would go bankrupt, but we spend a few billion that ended up being a complete waste of taxpayer money.

Same thing applies to SunCoke. It was inevitable, everyone knew it yet council spent $500,000.00+ of the Monroe taxpayers money. AND there is a question if the spending was legal or not.

This issue hurt many families in the area. Damaged them financially, hurt them socially since daddy couldn't find work. It is estimated that Middletown has a true unemployement rate of 20%.

Councils efforts needed to be directed at the residents impacted by the coal piles. Focus on solutions such as helping those impacted get market rates for their homes so they can move away. Surely that would have been a more productive conversation than a Lawsuit. Council acts like a bunch of bullies. Kicking out Mr. Triick and The Chamber, then to add gas to the flame, Council goes out and Joins the West Chester Chamber. Heck Westchester is the home of AK you fools.

Council should stop wasting taxpayers money. Council should admit that the lawsuit did nothing that level headed and mature negotiations would have brought.

I guess we can't expect level-headedness and maturity from this council. The good news is 3 members are up for re-elections and there are a few new faces that will bring balance to the good old boys council clan.

So what's the Next Step? The City of Monroe is reviewing the draft New Source Review permit and will submit comments, to Ohio and U.S. EPA as appropriate.

Wow, Council is invited to SUBMIT COMMENTS. And all it cost was $500K. What a bargain.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by cmsquare[/i]
[br]I commend the city for standing up against big business who thinks the rules don't apply to them. They are fighting the good fight, whatever they are spending it is worth it.



We're watching out for you.
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Les Lofton
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Posted - 08/28/2009 :  4:36:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

The city should not characterize the construction that took place as "illegal" until a court makes that determination.

It's almost worth the Great Depression, to learn how little our big men know.
-Will Rogers
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Bartleby
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Posted - 08/28/2009 :  4:42:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

You are right, the city's money would have been better spent on solutions rather than fighting it out right. Too often we get wrapped up in bit**ing about things that we don't get anything done, that $500,000 would have bought a lot of land and trees to create a green belt with Sun cokes help.

$500K for comments, your wrong here. The public was permitted to provide comments before the money was spent.

This came down to Monroe's general attitude of we hate AK and we are better than Middletown.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by MonroeWatch[/i]
[br]That is a complete lack of understanding about what is actually being responsible.

Is it responsible to bail out GM then let them go into bankruptcy? It was inevitable that GM would go bankrupt, but we spend a few billion that ended up being a complete waste of taxpayer money.

Same thing applies to SunCoke. It was inevitable, everyone knew it yet council spent $500,000.00+ of the Monroe taxpayers money. AND there is a question if the spending was legal or not.

This issue hurt many families in the area. Damaged them financially, hurt them socially since daddy couldn't find work. It is estimated that Middletown has a true unemployement rate of 20%.

Councils efforts needed to be directed at the residents impacted by the coal piles. Focus on solutions such as helping those impacted get market rates for their homes so they can move away. Surely that would have been a more productive conversation than a Lawsuit. Council acts like a bunch of bullies. Kicking out Mr. Triick and The Chamber, then to add gas to the flame, Council goes out and Joins the West Chester Chamber. Heck Westchester is the home of AK you fools.

Council should stop wasting taxpayers money. Council should admit that the lawsuit did nothing that level headed and mature negotiations would have brought.

I guess we can't expect level-headedness and maturity from this council. The good news is 3 members are up for re-elections and there are a few new faces that will bring balance to the good old boys council clan.

So what's the Next Step? The City of Monroe is reviewing the draft New Source Review permit and will submit comments,/i> to Ohio and U.S. EPA as appropriate.

Wow, Council is invited to SUBMIT COMMENTS. And all it cost was $500K. What a bargain.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by cmsquare[/i]
[br]I commend the city for standing up against big business who thinks the rules don't apply to them. They are fighting the good fight, whatever they are spending it is worth it.





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MonroeWatch
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Posted - 08/28/2009 :  4:52:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Bartleby said, "This came down to Monroe's general attitude of we hate AK and we are better than Middletown."

Snobs and bullies describes a handful of people in Monroe. Let's not throw out the whole basket because of a few bad apples. Just get rid of the bad apples before they start infecting all the other fruit.

I feel sorry for those who think anger and hate is the solution. I guess that's what happens when your fruit has soured.

We're watching out for you.
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Murdock
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Posted - 08/28/2009 :  5:06:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I couldn't agree more with the comments of Bartleby and MonroeWatch, they 'hit the nail on the head'!!! Council will NEVER take responsibility for their actions and for the wasteful spending that has occurred with their lawsuit!!! It's time for some leadership on Monroe City Council- the only way to hold this bunch accountable is to vote in November and replace each and everyone of them that voted to spend over $500,000.00 of OUR MONEY!!!! Perhaps it's time for a recall of our current elected officials, or maybe a taxpayers lawsuit for wasteful spending!?!?!? Thanks City Council- LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Bartleby
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Posted - 08/28/2009 :  6:19:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

You say you'll change the constitution
Well you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well you know
You better free your mind instead

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Jane Smith
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Posted - 08/29/2009 :  2:54:50 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse



Then entire WORLD is taking a GREEN approach, to better our future. If not because they want to, they will be pressured to change. Because environmental education is key to survival.

No company should have to buy extra credits to pollute the environment, just to start!
They will not be able to reduce their pollution, when they are needed to regarding the E.P.A., or Cap & Trade.

So buying "pollution credits" from P&G, when Butler County is already heavily polluted. And for Butler County to
agree to cowering, and accepting these terms, shows that we need to reevaluate those so called leaders.

They can start by taking some lessons from Monroe. They are standing up for us, our children, our businesses, and employees,
and our future. I'm thankful for their decisions, they are thinking of our future~!

It's not your money anymore, it's Monroe's. And they care about your future, even if you do not.

I've been told many times on the Voice, and I'll share along, if you don't like Monroe, then LEAVE! And if your from Middletown, and you don't care about Monroe ~ post elsewhere. There are far to many of us that love Monroe, and care about our children and future.

But, you will find very few areas that do not care about the environment, and neighbors that don't care about their future, or their children's and grand children's future.
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cmsquare
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Posted - 08/29/2009 :  6:41:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by isis[/i]
[br]
It's not your money anymore, it's Monroe's. And they care about your future, even if you do not.





quoted for truth.
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Bartleby
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Posted - 08/29/2009 :  7:03:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

"The entire WORLD is taking a GREEN approach" WRONG China is adding the same amount of pollution that the US emits annually every month due to growth. China, North Korea, South Korea, Brazil all have said we had our turn to pollute the environ now it is their turn.

The single thing that Americans can do to reduce pollution is to quit eating meat.

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Bartleby
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Posted - 08/29/2009 :  7:26:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

http://www.un.org/apps/news

Rearing cattle produces more greenhouse gases than driving cars, UN report warns


29 November 2006 Cattle-rearing generates more global warming greenhouse gases, as measured in CO2 equivalent, than transportation, and smarter production methods, including improved animal diets to reduce enteric fermentation and consequent methane emissions, are urgently needed, according to a new United Nations report released today.
Livestock are one of the most significant contributors to todays most serious environmental problems, senior UN Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) official Henning Steinfeld said. Urgent action is required to remedy the situation.

Cattle-rearing is also a major source of land and water degradation, according to the FAO report, Livestocks Long ShadowEnvironmental Issues and Options, of which Mr. Steinfeld is the senior author.

The environmental costs per unit of livestock production must be cut by one half, just to avoid the level of damage worsening beyond its present level, it warns.

When emissions from land use and land use change are included, the livestock sector accounts for 9 per cent of CO2 deriving from human-related activities, but produces a much larger share of even more harmful greenhouse gases. It generates 65 per cent of human-related nitrous oxide, which has 296 times the Global Warming Potential (GWP) of CO2. Most of this comes from manure.

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Bartleby
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Posted - 08/29/2009 :  7:29:36 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Isis,

Along with driving your Prius, heating your house and water with electric powered geothermal, and reusing your bags at Kroger; you better make sure you are not eating any meat or using any leather goods.

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Jane Smith
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  09:53:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Bartleby- I can't afford a Prius, nor environmental improvements at this time. Even then, I'm not sure I would buy one. I like my SUV, and knowing I can plow through whatever is in my way. And me and the kids, wont' be buried in a tuna can, if we are in an accident.

I would never buy at Kroger's because they would tell me when I need to buy my tampax....if I would let them. I will eat meat, until the day I keel over from a heart attack from my triglycerides (although mostly genetic- I don't mind adding to them, and taking my lipidor/tricor). I love Venison though, and it's impact is less greater, then that of bovine.

I would love to upgrade with the ton's of environmental improvements for my home. But, like man other homeowner's with the similar ideals, making ends meet is first. Then you add respectively what you can, to lessen your impact, and to reduce your costs. Who doesn't LOVE the ideal of living off the grid ? Would you not enjoy seeing a check from DUKE ENERGY, sent to YOU ? I've seen it happen, I've watched the hands move backwards. And I know and appreciate the alternatives, and improvements.

And leather goods have been around, since man wanted to cover his arse, to keep the fly's off.

I'm just telling you the truth, like it or not, it's the way the world is going to change. It won't be over night, but there is enough initiative, and it's going to happen.

You did name a few countries to visit, and property there is quite cheap. (just kidding) Chill out, most of the problems the earth is facing is stuck with our children and grandchildren.

But, we can make changes. We can do what we are able to, within reason. And help implement new programs, to reduce emissions, etc. To better their lives, reduce their future health problems.
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Mr.Baseball02
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  09:56:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Monroe also recognizes that the coke plant may bring economic benefits to the Middletown area, including new jobs and support to the AK Steel Middletown Works. But simply put, no business is above the law. If SunCoke would site its project responsibly and comply with applicable air pollution laws for the protection of the public, the City of Monroe would have no objection to the Coke plant.

Read this above and answer the following questions in YES or No fashion. There is no need for an explanation just a yes or no answer.

1. Do you believe AK Steel and SunCoke should be above the law?

2. Do you believe in a facility that is environmentally complaint with the written laws of the State of Ohio and United States of America?

3. Is jobs and the stability of AK Steel more important then the health and well being of citizens?

4. Is it fair that FDS Coke Plant in Toledo has all these restrictions being enforced by the Ohio EPA while the Ohio EPA is looking the other way when it comes the Middletown Coke Company permit?
Examples: There is closed coal storage in Toledo while in Middletown there are no enclosures and no water sprays installed to keep the coal piles from blowing. Middletown Coke Company is allowed more S02 emissions then FDS Coke plant in Toledo.


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Bartleby
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  11:30:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

So Isis, you care about your property values greater than you care about the environment. That is cool. BTW the reason I brought up leather goods is becasue the most recent UN report on global warming said that the best thing that can be done to reduce global warming in the United States is to reduce the cattle population, this is driven by demand for steaks and leather goods. Before all of you naysayers jump all over my comment do your research, and cows are bred just for leather quality which does not relate to good steaks.

Mr. Baseball has me in a conundrum. My answer to his series of questions is No, Yes, No, No .....I am dying to provide explanation but he requested I not. Awwwww I cant help it....wasn't the Middletown Coke Company's facility within the laws of the state of Ohio....you are on to my primary concern with the Coke Plant material handling and noise....SO2 emissions no one cares about there are more cow farts to worry about

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Mr.Baseball02
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  2:25:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Thanks for the response Bartleby because when you answered YES to question 1 and SunCoke and AK Steel is NOT within the law when it comes to their netting and Nox emissions! They now they are not within the law and that is the very reason why they are not building the plant.


Lets now talk about why this whole S02 is important when comes to the health and welfare of people in which you answered No to the question where I asked is the stability of AK Steel more important then the health and welfare of citizens.

Here is the definition of S02 directly from the EPA website.

Sulfur dioxide, or SO2, belongs to the family of sulfur oxide gases (SOx). These gases dissolve easily in water. Sulfur is prevalent in all raw materials, including crude oil, coal, and ore that contains common metals like aluminum, copper, zinc, lead, and iron. SOx gases are formed when fuel containing sulfur, such as coal and oil, is burned, and when gasoline is extracted from oil, or metals are extracted from ore. SO2 dissolves in water vapor to form acid, and interacts with other gases and particles in the air to form sulfates and other products that can be harmful to people and their environment.

Now here are the effects of S02 on citizens. Again the numbers are at MUCH HIGHER levels then in Toledo. The levels are high enough that with people so close by that it will cause health problems for those that live nearby.

Sulfur Dioxide
Health and Environmental Impacts of SO2
Sulfur Dioxide

SO2 causes a wide variety of health and environmental impacts because of the way it reacts with other substances in the air. Particularly sensitive groups include people with asthma who are active outdoors and children, the elderly, and people with heart or lung disease.

Respiratory Effects from Gaseous SO2 - Peak levels of SO2 in the air can cause temporary breathing difficulty for people with asthma who are active outdoors. Longer-term exposures to high levels of SO2 gas and particles cause respiratory illness and aggravate existing heart disease.

Respiratory Effects from Sulfate Particles - SO2 reacts with other chemicals in the air to form tiny sulfate particles. When these are breathed, they gather in the lungs and are associated with increased respiratory symptoms and disease, difficulty in breathing, and premature death.

Visibility Impairment - Haze occurs when light is scattered or absorbed by particles and gases in the air. Sulfate particles are the major cause of reduced visibility in many parts of the U.S., including our national parks.

Acid Rain - SO2 and nitrogen oxides react with other substances in the air to form acids, which fall to earth as rain, fog, snow, or dry particles. Some may be carried by the wind for hundreds of miles.

Plant and Water Damage - Acid rain damages forests and crops, changes the makeup of soil, and makes lakes and streams acidic and unsuitable for fish. Continued exposure over a long time changes the natural variety of plants and animals in an ecosystem.

Aesthetic Damage - SO2 accelerates the decay of building materials and paints, including irreplaceable monuments, statues, and sculptures that are part of our nation's cultural heritage.
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Tom B
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  2:55:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit Tom B's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bartleby[/i]
[br] Before all of you naysayers jump all over my comment do your research, and cows are bred just for leather quality which does not relate to good steaks.



You need to spend some time on a ranch if you believe that leather quality is the driving factor.

Tom Birdwell

Opinions written here are mine alone, and may not reflect the views of other board members.


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Houndog
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  4:50:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Mr.Baseball02[/i]
[br]Monroe also recognizes that the coke plant may bring economic benefits to the Middletown area, including new jobs and support to the AK Steel Middletown Works. But simply put, no business is above the law. If SunCoke would site its project responsibly and comply with applicable air pollution laws for the protection of the public, the City of Monroe would have no objection to the Coke plant.

Read this above and answer the following questions in YES or No fashion. There is no need for an explanation just a yes or no answer.

1. Do you believe AK Steel and SunCoke should be above the law?

2. Do you believe in a facility that is environmentally complaint with the written laws of the State of Ohio and United States of America?

3. Is jobs and the stability of AK Steel more important then the health and well being of citizens?

4. Is it fair that FDS Coke Plant in Toledo has all these restrictions being enforced by the Ohio EPA while the Ohio EPA is looking the other way when it comes the Middletown Coke Company permit?
Examples: There is closed coal storage in Toledo while in Middletown there are no enclosures and no water sprays installed to keep the coal piles from blowing. Middletown Coke Company is allowed more S02 emissions then FDS Coke plant in Toledo.






Thankfully throughout human history, explainations have been welcomed by rational, thinking people.
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Mr.Baseball02
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  5:31:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Houndog[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Mr.Baseball02[/i]
[br]Monroe also recognizes that the coke plant may bring economic benefits to the Middletown area, including new jobs and support to the AK Steel Middletown Works. But simply put, no business is above the law. If SunCoke would site its project responsibly and comply with applicable air pollution laws for the protection of the public, the City of Monroe would have no objection to the Coke plant.

Read this above and answer the following questions in YES or No fashion. There is no need for an explanation just a yes or no answer.

1. Do you believe AK Steel and SunCoke should be above the law?

2. Do you believe in a facility that is environmentally complaint with the written laws of the State of Ohio and United States of America?

3. Is jobs and the stability of AK Steel more important then the health and well being of citizens?

4. Is it fair that FDS Coke Plant in Toledo has all these restrictions being enforced by the Ohio EPA while the Ohio EPA is looking the other way when it comes the Middletown Coke Company permit?
Examples: There is closed coal storage in Toledo while in Middletown there are no enclosures and no water sprays installed to keep the coal piles from blowing. Middletown Coke Company is allowed more S02 emissions then FDS Coke plant in Toledo.






Thankfully throughout human history, explainations have been welcomed by rational, thinking people.



Hey bud how are you today? I remember you by the way I think we have meet on two occasions. Why didn't you answer my questions?
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Wolfie
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  7:28:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit Wolfie's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

http://www.greenbiz.com/blog/2009/08/28/whos-greenest-generation-new-study-finds-out-who-isnt

The study, commissioned by IBM, found that young adults in Generation Y -- the folks currently aged 18-24 -- had both the highest levels of awareness of environmental issues, and were the biggest wasters of energy and water in the country.



Urs.. MrBBall: Are you above the law? Ever broke the speed limit?

Do you think China gives a darn about SOX & NOX?

Do you own a car? Appliance? Fork?

Do you know the difference between a Pot and Kettle?

Do you support sending more jobs overseas?



All the research that I have done shows one repeated problem. There is no technolgy out there to make a industrial plant like this 'compliant'. That is where the term 'best available technology' comes from.

Like Bart said, this (Our) money could have been better spent. Greenspaces, treelines, even pollution research.

My $.02 (or in this case, my $100 in taxes!!!)

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Houndog
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  7:33:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Alright, I'll answer your questions. Then you can answer one, single question for me.
1.No
2.Yes
3.Question wording vague. Whose citizens are you speaking of?
4.Refuse to answer question on grounds of not being an environment attorney. Who, of which, those employed by both the city of Monroe and the corporations of AK and Sun Coke refuse to publicly discuss the case, therefore why should we? Besides, you gave an explanation for a question of which you demanded only a 'yes' or 'no' answer.

Now, my question.
1. Would you, or better yet could you, work 12 to 16 hours a day 4 to 7 days a week, swing shift, in an industrial setting; with the knowledge of providing your children with a better future, one which would include the possiblily of a college education?
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buck35
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  8:09:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Instead of asking him that long BS question. Just ask him if he would work for Suncoke?
Each person is looking out for themselves that has posted on this issue plain and simple!
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Bartleby
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  9:12:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Hear Hear Buck

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James Little
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  9:30:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by buck35[/i]
[br]Instead of asking him that long BS question. Just ask him if he would work for Suncoke?
Each person is looking out for themselves that has posted on this issue plain and simple!



Who are you speaking about mrbaseball or urso?
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Bartleby
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  9:30:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Thats a good cut and paste where was it from wikipedia?

Answer this question Mr Baseball.
The netting credits depend upon your interpretation of the law. A company is allowed to use Nox credits if they are within 5 years of a. shutting down a process
b. demolishing a process

a or b please no explanations needed

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Mr.Baseball02[/i]
[br]Thanks for the response Bartleby because when you answered YES to question 1 and SunCoke and AK Steel is NOT within the law when it comes to their netting and Nox emissions! They now they are not within the law and that is the very reason why they are not building the plant.


Lets now talk about why this whole S02 is important when comes to the health and welfare of people in which you answered No to the question where I asked is the stability of AK Steel more important then the health and welfare of citizens.

Here is the definition of S02 directly from the EPA website.

Sulfur dioxide, or SO2, belongs to the family of sulfur oxide gases (SOx). These gases dissolve easily in water. Sulfur is prevalent in all raw materials, including crude oil, coal, and ore that contains common metals like aluminum, copper, zinc, lead, and iron. SOx gases are formed when fuel containing sulfur, such as coal and oil, is burned, and when gasoline is extracted from oil, or metals are extracted from ore. SO2 dissolves in water vapor to form acid, and interacts with other gases and particles in the air to form sulfates and other products that can be harmful to people and their environment.

Now here are the effects of S02 on citizens. Again the numbers are at MUCH HIGHER levels then in Toledo. The levels are high enough that with people so close by that it will cause health problems for those that live nearby.

Sulfur Dioxide
Health and Environmental Impacts of SO2
Sulfur Dioxide

SO2 causes a wide variety of health and environmental impacts because of the way it reacts with other substances in the air. Particularly sensitive groups include people with asthma who are active outdoors and children, the elderly, and people with heart or lung disease.

Respiratory Effects from Gaseous SO2 - Peak levels of SO2 in the air can cause temporary breathing difficulty for people with asthma who are active outdoors. Longer-term exposures to high levels of SO2 gas and particles cause respiratory illness and aggravate existing heart disease.

Respiratory Effects from Sulfate Particles - SO2 reacts with other chemicals in the air to form tiny sulfate particles. When these are breathed, they gather in the lungs and are associated with increased respiratory symptoms and disease, difficulty in breathing, and premature death.

Visibility Impairment - Haze occurs when light is scattered or absorbed by particles and gases in the air. Sulfate particles are the major cause of reduced visibility in many parts of the U.S., including our national parks.

Acid Rain - SO2 and nitrogen oxides react with other substances in the air to form acids, which fall to earth as rain, fog, snow, or dry particles. Some may be carried by the wind for hundreds of miles.

Plant and Water Damage - Acid rain damages forests and crops, changes the makeup of soil, and makes lakes and streams acidic and unsuitable for fish. Continued exposure over a long time changes the natural variety of plants and animals in an ecosystem.

Aesthetic Damage - SO2 accelerates the decay of building materials and paints, including irreplaceable monuments, statues, and sculptures that are part of our nation's cultural heritage.


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James Little
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  9:37:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Nobody cuts and pastes here.... everybody always gives credit to their sources.
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Dexter
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  9:44:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Cancer Myth 6: Living in a polluted city is a greater risk for lung cancer than smoking a pack of cigarettes a day.
Respondents Who Agreed: 40 percent

Origin of Myth: Unknown. This myth appeals to smokers, who are trying to convince themselves that tobacco use isn't all that bad.

Reality: The truth is just the opposite, but more than a third of those questioned in the Discovery Health/Prevention survey agreed with the myth that living in a polluted city is a greater risk for lung cancer than smoking a pack of cigarettes a day.

Air pollution is far less likely to cause lung cancer than smoking cigarettes. Being a smoker, or even being frequently exposed to secondhand smoke is more dangerous than the level of air pollution encountered in U.S. cities.

Dirty air does contribute to lung cancer risk, but has a greater impact on heart disease, asthma and chronic bronchitis. American Cancer Society (ACS) vice president of epidemiology and surveillance Michael Thun, M.D., estimates that air pollution increases the risk of lung cancer by 1/100th of the increased risk brought on by smoking a pack of cigarettes a day.

Most people tend to overestimate the risk caused by factors imposed on them by others and to underestimate the seriousness of risks caused by their own behavior.

Lung cancer was a rare disease at the beginning of the 20th century, when few people smoked. The introduction of manufactured cigarettes, which made them readily available, changed this. About 87 percent of lung cancers are thought to result from smoking or passive exposure to tobacco smoke. Today, lung cancer is the leading cause of cancer death in men and women expected to cause 157,200 deaths in 2003. The longer you smoke and the more packs per day you smoke, the greater your risk.

If you stop smoking before a cancer develops, your damaged lung tissue gradually starts to return to normal. Ten years after stopping smoking, your risk is reduced to one-third of what it would have been if you continued to smoke. Cigar smoking and pipe smoking are almost as likely to cause lung cancer as cigarette smoking. There is no evidence that smoking low tar cigarettes reduces the risk of lung cancer.

Secondhand Smoke
If you don't smoke, but breathe in the smoke of others (secondhand smoke or environmental tobacco smoke) you are also at increased risk for lung cancer. A nonsmoker who is married to a smoker has a 30 percent greater risk of developing lung cancer than the spouse of a nonsmoker. Workers who have been exposed to tobacco smoke in the workplace are also more likely to get lung cancer.

More effective ways to quit smoking have made headlines in the last year, including free telephone quitlines, which offer personal counseling to find the best mix of medicine and quitting methods for each person.



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Bartleby
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  9:49:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Why were there no out cries when Quaker recently expanded there production. There was a PTI issued, no fight, no public comments. What about TEPPCO after the fire they were issued a PTI to build the gas drying facility that we pleasantly see at Todhunter and Yankee. no fight, no public comments.

Nope nothing....people in Monroe have always hated AK because they hated Middletown...and AK made Middletown...etc.

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Bartleby
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  10:07:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

What about corinthian leather? The cows that produce this fine leather are not allowed to be rained on and receive daily rub downs with milk from a lactating.....I better stop


quote:
[i]Originally posted by Tom Birdwell[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bartleby[/i]
[br] Before all of you naysayers jump all over my comment do your research, and cows are bred just for leather quality which does not relate to good steaks.



You need to spend some time on a ranch if you believe that leather quality is the driving factor.


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Mr.Baseball02
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  11:25:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Wolfie[/i]
[br]http://www.greenbiz.com/blog/2009/08/28/whos-greenest-generation-new-study-finds-out-who-isnt

The study, commissioned by IBM, found that young adults in Generation Y -- the folks currently aged 18-24 -- had both the highest levels of awareness of environmental issues, and were the biggest wasters of energy and water in the country.



Urs.. MrBBall: Are you above the law? Ever broke the speed limit?

Do you think China gives a darn about SOX & NOX?

Do you own a car? Appliance? Fork?

Do you know the difference between a Pot and Kettle?

Do you support sending more jobs overseas?



All the research that I have done shows one repeated problem. There is no technolgy out there to make a industrial plant like this 'compliant'. That is where the term 'best available technology' comes from.

Like Bart said, this (Our) money could have been better spent. Greenspaces, treelines, even pollution research.

My $.02 (or in this case, my $100 in taxes!!!)





Thanks for your input. Now...I do think going over the speed limit and polluting excessively are two different things. We may disagree but I look at it differently.

China doesn't care but that doesn't mean the United States should not care. Were going to lose jobs to China anyway because this administration is going in that direction. They are going to an extreme with Cap and Trade in which I strongly oppose.
Since you said there is no technology to make this plant environmentally friendly then why should something like this be plopped down in the middle of a neighborhood,retirement and a school? All the other coke plants that SunCoke owns are actually more then 1/2-1 mile away from homes.
Haverhill is an example and the SunCoke has had numerous violations in Haverhill. I have spoken with people that live near the Coke Plant in Haverhill and they have lost all their property values and encountered numerous health issues since the plant became operational. What is scary is the plant here in Middletown will sit right on top of Monroe residents not 1/2 mile like Haverhill. Again you are entitled to your opinion but till SunCoke needs gets within the law or there will be no coke plant. Monroe I hate to say is only a small part of SunCoke's problems. They still have to get through the environmental groups and other pending litigation from other parties. Lastly in Toledo they have fought this for 5 years a small village, NRDC and the Sierra Club has beaten FDS Coke Plant into the ground and they are about abandon ship. What's sad is I find the FDS permit acceptable and if they were proposing to build here with their current permit I don't think the City of Monroe would have any issues with it.
I ask the question again.

Why is AK Steel/SunCoke getting special treatment then their friends at FDS?
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Mr.Baseball02
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  11:28:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Houndog[/i]
[br]Alright, I'll answer your questions. Then you can answer one, single question for me.
1.No
2.Yes
3.Question wording vague. Whose citizens are you speaking of?
4.Refuse to answer question on grounds of not being an environment attorney. Who, of which, those employed by both the city of Monroe and the corporations of AK and Sun Coke refuse to publicly discuss the case, therefore why should we? Besides, you gave an explanation for a question of which you demanded only a 'yes' or 'no' answer.

Now, my question.
1. Would you, or better yet could you, work 12 to 16 hours a day 4 to 7 days a week, swing shift, in an industrial setting; with the knowledge of providing your children with a better future, one which would include the possiblily of a college education?



1. The citizens of Monroe and especially those that live nearby.
2. I think we would work something out where I can have meet with someone that tell you what is illegal with this current permit. Also the differences between FDS/SunCoke.

My answer to your question. Yes but I am sort of picky about health and would not work in coke plant or somewhere my health would be at risk or takes year off my life. I would like to live to see my grandchildren. You are quite vague with the question because there are different types of industry some are quite clean and green while some are very dirty and polluting.
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Mr.Baseball02
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  11:33:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bartleby[/i]
[br]Thats a good cut and paste where was it from wikipedia?

Answer this question Mr Baseball.
The netting credits depend upon your interpretation of the law. A company is allowed to use Nox credits if they are within 5 years of a. shutting down a process
b. demolishing a process

a or b please no explanations needed

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Mr.Baseball02[/i]
[br]Thanks for the response Bartleby because when you answered YES to question 1 and SunCoke and AK Steel is NOT within the law when it comes to their netting and Nox emissions! They now they are not within the law and that is the very reason why they are not building the plant.


Lets now talk about why this whole S02 is important when comes to the health and welfare of people in which you answered No to the question where I asked is the stability of AK Steel more important then the health and welfare of citizens.

Here is the definition of S02 directly from the EPA website.

Sulfur dioxide, or SO2, belongs to the family of sulfur oxide gases (SOx). These gases dissolve easily in water. Sulfur is prevalent in all raw materials, including crude oil, coal, and ore that contains common metals like aluminum, copper, zinc, lead, and iron. SOx gases are formed when fuel containing sulfur, such as coal and oil, is burned, and when gasoline is extracted from oil, or metals are extracted from ore. SO2 dissolves in water vapor to form acid, and interacts with other gases and particles in the air to form sulfates and other products that can be harmful to people and their environment.

Now here are the effects of S02 on citizens. Again the numbers are at MUCH HIGHER levels then in Toledo. The levels are high enough that with people so close by that it will cause health problems for those that live nearby.

Sulfur Dioxide
Health and Environmental Impacts of SO2
Sulfur Dioxide

SO2 causes a wide variety of health and environmental impacts because of the way it reacts with other substances in the air. Particularly sensitive groups include people with asthma who are active outdoors and children, the elderly, and people with heart or lung disease.

Respiratory Effects from Gaseous SO2 - Peak levels of SO2 in the air can cause temporary breathing difficulty for people with asthma who are active outdoors. Longer-term exposures to high levels of SO2 gas and particles cause respiratory illness and aggravate existing heart disease.

Respiratory Effects from Sulfate Particles - SO2 reacts with other chemicals in the air to form tiny sulfate particles. When these are breathed, they gather in the lungs and are associated with increased respiratory symptoms and disease, difficulty in breathing, and premature death.

Visibility Impairment - Haze occurs when light is scattered or absorbed by particles and gases in the air. Sulfate particles are the major cause of reduced visibility in many parts of the U.S., including our national parks.

Acid Rain - SO2 and nitrogen oxides react with other substances in the air to form acids, which fall to earth as rain, fog, snow, or dry particles. Some may be carried by the wind for hundreds of miles.

Plant and Water Damage - Acid rain damages forests and crops, changes the makeup of soil, and makes lakes and streams acidic and unsuitable for fish. Continued exposure over a long time changes the natural variety of plants and animals in an ecosystem.

Aesthetic Damage - SO2 accelerates the decay of building materials and paints, including irreplaceable monuments, statues, and sculptures that are part of our nation's cultural heritage.





No..
The actual EPA website. Here are the links and Dexter can you please site your source and WELCOME BACK!

http://www.epa.gov/oar/urbanair/so2/

http://www.epa.gov/oar/urbanair/so2/hlth1.html
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Mr.Baseball02
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  11:34:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by buck35[/i]
[br]Instead of asking him that long BS question. Just ask him if he would work for Suncoke?
Each person is looking out for themselves that has posted on this issue plain and simple!



Heck NO!
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Mr.Baseball02
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  11:35:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bartleby[/i]
[br]Why were there no out cries when Quaker recently expanded there production. There was a PTI issued, no fight, no public comments. What about TEPPCO after the fire they were issued a PTI to build the gas drying facility that we pleasantly see at Todhunter and Yankee. no fight, no public comments.

Nope nothing....people in Monroe have always hated AK because they hated Middletown...and AK made Middletown...etc.




Plain and simple they are WITHIN THE LAW unlike SunCoke..
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Bartleby
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  11:40:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Would you work for a solar panel manufacturer? That has to be clean and green right..

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Mr.Baseball02
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Posted - 08/30/2009 :  11:46:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bartleby[/i]
[br]Would you work for a solar panel manufacturer? That has to be clean and green right..



Possibly but I would need to know more details about the technology etc... I make you the same offer I made Houndog... Let me know if you want to grab a drink and talk about this whole thing. Its better to speak in person because this is a very complex issue that is quite hard to discuss over a public forum. Also attend the EPA hearing if you have time it will be informative. Take care and good night!
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Dexter
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Posted - 08/31/2009 :  07:51:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Smoking Worse Than Exhaust for Air Pollution
Italian Tests Show Cigarettes Emit 10 Times More Particulate Matter
By Miranda Hitti
WebMD Health NewsAug. 23, 2004 -- Three cigarettes can cause more air pollution than a diesel car's exhaust, according to an Italian study.

The study compared levels of air pollution particles produced by cigarettes with those coming from a late-model "eco-diesel" engine. The research team was led by Giovanni Invernizzi of the Tobacco Control Unit of Italy's National Cancer Institute.

Environmental tobacco smoke is a contributor of air pollution particles. These fine particles are a risk factor for chronic lung disease which can be debilitating and sometimes fatal. They can lead to conditions such as asthma, bronchitis, and emphysema, and are also a risk for lung cancer, write the researchers.

The test was conducted in the small, northern Italian mountain town of Chiavenna, which has unusually low outdoor levels of air pollution.

The experiment was conducted in a closed, private garage with six small vents, which were kept open during the experiment in accordance with Italian law.

The car they tested was a 2002 turbo diesel Ford Mondeo that met European gas exhaust standards. Low-sulfur fuel was also used.

The cigarettes were "MS" filter cigarettes produced by Italian State Monopoly. Each contained 1 milligram of nicotine and 11.2 milligrams of tar.

The researchers started the Mondeo and then let its engine idle for 30 minutes. After airing out the garage for four hours, the scientists lit three cigarettes -- one after another -- and let them smolder for a total of 30 minutes.

They measured air pollution levels every two minutes during the tests. They also measured pollution particle matter for an additional 90 minutes after the engine was turned off and the cigarettes had burned out. The car's exhaust and cigarettes were placed in the same position.

Researchers focused on fine particulate matter air pollution -- microscopic particles in the air that measure less than 2.5 micrometers in diameter, which is about the size of cigarette smoke particles.

The cigarettes produced 10 times as much particulate matter as the auto, comparing the first hour after starting the engine with the first hour after lighting the cigarettes.

"Since we utilized a room with a volume similar to that encountered in many offices and homes, the present data give cause for concern," write the researchers. "Environmental tobacco smoke is a major source of particulate matter pollution."

Newer vehicles have improved emission rates. "It has been estimated that older gasoline vehicles and light-duty diesel emission rates are on average 100 times higher than those of newer vehicles," write the researchers. Low-sulfur fuel also helps reduce particulate matter.

While smoking is restricted for health reasons in many countries, it's not always associated with air pollution.

"Even health personnel are often unaware of such risks," write the researchers, who suggest using their findings in antismoking campaigns. The research is published in the journal Tobacco Control.



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Jane Smith
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Posted - 08/31/2009 :  08:53:07 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

"So Isis, you care about your property values greater than you care about the environment." No, I never said that.

Special thanks to all of those people, with their Not-In-My-Backyard Mentality~! Thanks for inspiring Monroe, and for caring about our CHILDREN, And ESPECIALLY OUR SENIOR CITIZENS, and Monroe's Future~!

Please don't forget~! Help make a difference for Monroe, and lead Butler County in to a better future. Please come to the Public Hearing~!

The following information was borrowed from the SunCoke Watch Inc newsletter, in hopes of encouraging more residents in showing support for their environment and our children, our future~!

Middletown Coke Company NSR Permit Permit-to-Install Public Hearing
Wednesday, September 2, 2009 at 6:30 p.m.
Miami University Middletown Campus Community Center
Johnston Hall, Room 142
4200 E. University Blvd.
Middletown, OH 45042

Written comments can be submitted by September 8th to:
Mike Ploetz
HCDES
250 William Howard Taft,
First Floor
Cincinnati, OH 45219

The following quote by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. summarizes the position SunCoke Watch Inc. has taken consistently over the last 18 months:

Cowardice asks the question - is it safe?
Vanity asks the question - is it popular?
Expediency asks the question - is it political?
But conscience asks the question - is it right?

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