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John Beagle
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  09:20:50 AM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I think this whole lawsuit thing is just unfortunate and totally the wrong way to go. I think SunCokeWatch (SCW) acted irresponsibly by insisting council take the legal course of action and then following through with little or no effort.

SCW has no large groups, ready to mobilize at a moments notice. One never hears from SCW until something happens in the court or other ruling agency. This latest ruling is clearly a lose-lose at Monroe taxpayer expense.

SCW took the easy way out by letting council and our money do ALL THE WORK!!!! In effect, SCW made council the Fall Guy while sitting back and doing next to nothing.

Here is what SCW should have done


History shows that the best way to sway opinion is through the public and not the courts.

SCW should have learned how to say public opinion from great people like MLK and the Tea Party Movement. Where are your protesters? Where is the civil disobedience? By the way one protest does not make your unnamed cause. What is your real cause. No one knows for sure. Is it to stop the plant, move the plant, have the plant comply with pollution levels? Kill jobs?

Here is more evidence that SCW lacks conviction - Where is the use of social media? Where is your Facebook page with all your followers and 'likes'? Where are your tweets? Why is your website almost NEVER updated? Where is the TV coverage? Where is the video interview with grandma with her oxygen bottle and the little babies who might die from this event. Where is your engagement with the community?

What you have is DISENGAGEMENT. You need to re-engage.

I have offered this website as a forum for SCW to discuss and involve the Monroe community. Instead SCW officials decided that this website was Pro Suncoke because we allowed a Pro-Suncoke group to advertise and post here. I believe in allowing all sides of the discussion here. Sorry you thought otherwise. Really allowing a full argument is best for Monroe and does not hurt Monroe.

You can still get your word out, but you have to do a better job than cmsquare. He's no MLK. Lisa should be your MLK. We hear from her NEVER on this site. Why? Because someone might disagree with you? Or is it that your argument is so weak that people will know for sure we can not win.

You have failed to mobilize your greatest assets, Council itself. Now it is too late, and council is happy to say nothing thanks to the gag order by Callahan.

SCW organizers know nothing of the Art of War. They are lazy, they make no video for their cause (execpt Ursos one video). Yes SCW, you took the lazy way out and did nothing except spend Monroe's money.

A lack of Conviction


If you did your job right you would be like a parent looking for a lost child. You would not rest until your goal was achieved. You would have posted signs, met the media, took pictures, made videos and embraced every media channel possible to get your word out. Are you afraid that the media doesn't think you have a story worthy of covering more than occasionally. The compelling story comes from the other side. One of Presidents, Governors, Senators, Representatives, County Officials, Mayors and council people everywhere EXCEPT Monroe. And yes, there is way more social media support for the plant than against it. SCW needs to counter those social channels too. But the group is too small or just not interested enough to do all that work. Done properly, SCW would need probably a hundered man hours or more per week, every week. I don't see or hear the SCW story. And you blame me for listening to other voices.

Main Street Monroe Got your Word out BETTER than SCW did


We took the time to get your story and their story. We did the research, We posted opinions in your favor, We shared where we could. We did more work for your group than you did.


We even linked to your website!









http://www.mainstreetmonroe.com/view_news.asp?nId=4963

"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby

justwatching
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  10:24:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Lisa Frye has hung council out to dry. She is completely to blame for this fiasco. The money wasted on this lawsuit should come from her pocket, not the city or its residents!
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Bretland
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  10:47:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I have to disagree that Lisa Frye is to blame for the Suncoke lawsuit filed by the City.

One person or a small group of people should not be able to sway our Council on a frivolous or unimportant issue. The Council is
accountible for their actions and eventually they have to answer to the taxpayers, not Lisa Frye.

The City has spent a lot of money on the Suncoke lawsuit. The goal of stopping the operation may or may not succeed. The Council should get credit for the outcome (either way it turns out) not SunCoke Watch.

"There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary, and those that don't."
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John Beagle
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  10:57:05 AM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I think SKW has pressured council to do something. Council's job is to represent and get re-elected. There would be no lawsuit without SKW in my opinion. It's that groups initial efforts that caused council to cave in my opinion.

Not sure if Lisa is to blame or if she is just the mouthpiece for others in her neighborhood.

"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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Bretland
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  11:05:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

John,

If you are correct, then heaven help us. If our Council has members that consider re-election more important than sound rational decisions or they pander to special interest groups then we are in big trouble.

It will be interesting to see if the Suncoke plant goes online in 2011 as scheduled. What then? I expect there to be a LOT more conversation about this topic at that time.
Either the plant closes or it opens. It's a pretty simple outcome to observe.

"There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary, and those that don't."
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Dexter
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  11:34:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Why is Monroe fighting this battle for ONE person, If Lisa wants to keep the fight going then maybe should could open up her check book and pay the bill.



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buckeyenut
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  11:57:26 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I disagree that it is Council's job to get re-elected. If that were true, our Dayton representative would be collecting moving boxes.

Council is re-elected after earning the job and they did the right thing by taking on this fight for the little guy (or girl or grandma on oxygen).
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Happy HarperValley Rez
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  12:07:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I cracked up at the reference to our "Dayton" representative!


JMO, Suncoke was a bad fight for Council to take on solo.
Who doesn't consider the size of the opponent before trying to develop a good plan of attack? And know when it's time to "tap out"?

It was too large of a fight to go into alone and basically unarmed or prepared...but again, JMO!!
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Bretland
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  12:52:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

we have a Dayton representative?
just kidding...............I know who is being referred to

"There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary, and those that don't."
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Doc
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  1:09:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

It's probably just a secret scouting and squatting mission for annexation of the greater Miamisburg area.
They have better restaurants.
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MFD50
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  1:17:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I can't help myself but to think if this company had approached the Monroe Council about wanting to put this plant on the land that butts up against Cincinnati-Dayton and Todhunter so they could feed their coke product into the plant, that the council would have been stepping out of their shoes to make a way for it to be located in the city proper. But it isn't so it was easy for them to want it to be gone from their neighboring community. Lets face it if it was not for AK, Middletown, Monroe, Franklin, and the surrounding townships would not exist as they do today. It would look more like the Wilmington exit off I71 at St. Rt. 73. one big flea market!
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buckeyenut
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  1:25:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I don't believe AK had that much of an impact on Monroe's growth. Armco started way back in 1899. In 1977 when my folks moved here (dad worked at Treaty Supply) it was still the wee village of less than 3000. Most of the population increase has been in the past 10 years with the new school district.
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Bretland
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  1:54:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

MFD50,

We already have 2 flea markets!!!!! Are you saying it would be worse without AK???? Maybe 3 or more flea markets??....:)

"There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary, and those that don't."
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Happy HarperValley Rez
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  1:58:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I graduated from here in the early 80's and a lot of parents were employed through Armco.
In relation to the current coke plant in AK - this property is really not that far. What I hated is that is was a family farm for all of the years I grew up in the area and the land was used for industry. I would have liked for a "lesser quality of land" location to be used for industrial site but if wants and wishes...lol!

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John Beagle
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  2:07:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

AK has a huge economic impact on the whole area, including Monroe. Additionally the AK Steel Foundation has provided support to numerous nonprofit and charitable organizations, including, among many others:
-Abilities First
-American Cancer Society
-American Heart Association
-Anthony Muñoz Foundation
-Boy Scouts of America
-Children’s Home of Greater Cincinnati
-Downs Syndrome Association of Greater Cincinnati
-Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation
-Good Samaritan Hospital
-Kidney Foundation of Greater Cincinnati
-Leukemia and Lymphoma Society
-Marvin Lewis Community Fund
-Middletown Senior Citizens Center
-National Underground Railroad Freedom Center
-Ohio Cancer Research Associates

How many families in Monroe have someone who worked at AK Steel or other company in existence because AK is here. That includes Worthington Steel and a dozen other companies.

What about the retail and restaurants in Monroe. Think any AK people spend their money here in Monroe? At the Mall? At Froggy Blues?

For every dollar an AK employee spends in the area, that expenditure creates a dollar of opportunity for jobs, pay increases and benefits to other workers in the area.



quote:
[i]Originally posted by buckeyenut[/i]
[br]I don't believe AK had that much of an impact on Monroe's growth. Armco started way back in 1899. In 1977 when my folks moved here (dad worked at Treaty Supply) it was still the wee village of less than 3000. Most of the population increase has been in the past 10 years with the new school district.


"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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John Beagle
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  2:20:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Who ever do you mean? Do you suppose that one or more of our council persons doesn't really live in Monroe?

Well I know for a fact that Bob Routson lives in Monroe, so I hope you don't mean him.

Also, since my son is friends with Bob Kelley's son, I know BK lives in Monroe.

Stillman lives right up the street.
Rubin lives on a farm in Monroe.

So that leaves either Hickman or Shell. Anyone care to venture a guess who Buckeyenut might be referring to? Is someone misrepresenting his real residence so they may stay on council? What would be the intent?


quote:
[i]Originally posted by buckeyenut[/i]
[br]I disagree that it is Council's job to get re-elected. If that were true, our Dayton representative would be collecting moving boxes.

Council is re-elected after earning the job and they did the right thing by taking on this fight for the little guy (or girl or grandma on oxygen).


"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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Chuck Inwood
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  2:51:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Hi John

I know you are just trying to build traffic on your web site but I think your provocative post was over the top.

SunCoke Watch is proceeding with its own legal actions. As you certainly know, legal strategy is not something that should be discussed in a public forum.

You give SunCoke Watch way too much credit and members of City Council way too little credit for the actions the city has chosen to take. Your implication minimizes the harmful effects of 2,000 + tons of pollution from a coal coking facility on our border will have on the entire community. Here is an FYI:

Butler County is considered to be a “non-attainment area” due to the already unhealthy levels of pollution we live with today. The 2,000+ tons of emissions this plant would add to the air we all breathe include:

¨ 1,152 tons of Sulfur Dioxide to your community each and every year. This is what the EPA normally considers to be 40 times the significant threshold. Sulfur Dioxide is a dangerous air pollutant because of its corrosive properties – it causes irritation to the eyes, nose and the lungs.

¨ 12 times the EPA’s significant threshold, or 477 Tons of Nitrogen Oxides. Nitrogen Oxides constitute one of the main ingredients involved in the formation of ground-level ozone and can trigger serious respiratory problems.

¨ 406 Tons of Particulate Matter which is up to 16 times the EPA’s significant threshold. The effects of this particulate matter include:
o increased respiratory symptoms such as irritation of our airways, coughing and difficulty breathing
o decreased lung function
o aggravated asthma
o development of chronic bronchitis
o an increase in non-fatal heart attacks
o Premature deaths for people with heart or lung disease.

Your parroting Alan McCoy’s “Lose-lose” view of the recent lawsuit only demonstrates AK’s VP of Public Relations skill at spinning a story. To us it demonstrates what we have been saying for some time: the law is on our side but the politics are not.

SunCoke Watch will continue to invest our time and resources where we think it will do the most good. If that doesn’t include posting on mainstreetmonroe.com, don’t take it personally.

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buckeyenut
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  3:14:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by John Beagle[/i]

How many families in Monroe have someone who worked at AK Steel or other company in existence because AK is here. That includes Worthington Steel and a dozen other companies.

What about the retail and restaurants in Monroe. Think any AK people spend their money here in Monroe? At the Mall? At Froggy Blues?

For every dollar an AK employee spends in the area, that expenditure creates a dollar of opportunity for jobs, pay increases and benefits to other workers in the area.




I'm sure we all know someone who worked at Armco/AK. I'm saying those jobs have not impacted the population growth of Monroe in a significant way. I believe good schools and our proximity to I-75 or West Chester coupled with a small town atmosphere has fueled expansion.

Retail and restaurants in Monroe? Please. Until the mall opened, Monroe had near invisible retail, unless you count Kroger. How many retail businesses have closed? Most recently I can think of Kidd Coffee, Tan Today, Diamond Sports, Postal Solutions, El Grillo, Tasty Creations, Lil House Ice Cream shoppe, the Country Flower Shop, Perkins, and the list goes on and on. We are not a retail mecca but I do hope that changes somewhat.

As I stated earlier those 500 construction jobs (today reported at over 700) have done nothing to help the area near the plant to grow and prosper though Cottage Donuts may be getting a small percentage of Milton's business.
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John Beagle
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  3:19:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Thanks for the post Chuck. You look good on the video. And you made several good points a year ago. But what since then. A strong start with little follow-up.

I think you are not winning in the court of public opinion. You have to do 'things' people can see. SCW and Monroe Council both fail to 'make its case' in the court of the Monroe public opinion. Agreement doesn't go beyond your little group of people we do not know.

Hiding behind 'legal issues' does your case no good. I suggest you focus on 'human issues' and start doing something other than insisting that Monroe spend itself into a financial bind.

I'm over the top? No your groups treatment of me and this site is 'over the top' and that includes threatening and intimidation. Not to mention the loss of my link from the city website.

The lose-lose reference has been going around for 2 years. Its not a new sentiment. How do you win when you want to put people out of work AND spend their money doing so?

Do you know what the first thing people say to me when they see me? They always ask when Monroe Council is going to stop wasting our money on that [Suncoke] lawsuit. It's especially worse during the holidays since I see more people. I know of no one over the age of 60 who favors Monroe waisting its money on this lawsuit. This is a large voting block that for some reason is only being addressed by one council member.

So what do you say to people who meet you on the street and ask about the SunCoke lawsuit? Do you turn the other way when you see people coming? Or do you make the case? I suspect the latter.

Why not mobilize and engage Monroe?

I respect your opinion and your concern for our community. You just haven't done enough things to prove we can win. But I applaud your concern.


"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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Happy HarperValley Rez
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  3:40:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

No offense to the new poster but AK has had a coke plant for as long as I can remember right next door to a community of people who have been raising their families for generations in the area. No birth defects or dropping like flies from cancer from the pollution.
That is not to say it is healthy for this type of condition to exist but it is what it is and the people are not making a mass exodus from that area.
Just don't feel that the city would have become so financially entangled if SuncokeWatch had elicited more support from the beginning.
That my citizen opinion only!
As a taxpayer in Monroe, I am not happy we became financially involved in this losing battle. JMO!
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Doc
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  3:46:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by John Beagle[/i]
[br]I think you are not winning in the court of public opinion.
Is that one the one that's going to decide the fate of the coke plant? Or is it (eventually) a Federal court that one needs to win over?
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cmsquare
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  3:56:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Wow

someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.



John you should run for council if you are so passionate about this and feel you have the support of the community on it. Maybe you could even give yourself your link back, since this is what that's really about anyway.

I wish people would stop pretending to be legal experts, when they don't even have all the facts of the case. How John or Jane public could intelligently comment on this case is beyond me, there is so much info you don't have. Saying we will win, or we will lose is just absurd when you are missing large portions of info. Statements such as these are baseless and propaganda, nothing more.

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James Little
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  3:58:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Did you see the dude in the video of Lisa getting down low on the floor to take a picture..... what was he looking at?
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Prada
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  4:23:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

John if u think it is so great, move over to our neighborhood. As...le
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John Beagle
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  4:30:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Where did I say it is so great? I said you need to get the word out about how bad it is.

Did you even read my post?

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Prada[/i]
[br]John if u think it is so great, move over to our neighborhood. As...le


"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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Doc
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  4:52:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Prada[/i]
[br]As...le
I'm pretty sure most people spell 'Assemble' without the three dots.
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ClarkWestern1
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  5:09:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Doc[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Prada[/i]
[br]As...le
I'm pretty sure most people spell 'Assemble' without the three dots.


Not to mention the omission of "Avengers, " prior to it...

"Just spittin out words to see where they splatter."
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Les Lofton
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  7:26:56 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Mr. Beagle, SuncokeWatch did things exactly right for their cause. They got you to help pay their legal bills. It is council to blame for their poor judgment. I am pretty sure that if there was an issue that directly effected your neighborhood and property values that you would be with your neighbors clamoring for council to "do something."

It's almost worth the Great Depression, to learn how little our big men know.
-Will Rogers
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buck35
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  8:35:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Mmmm yep I think you maybe right there Les.
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John Beagle
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  11:16:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

SuncokeWatch did things exactly right for their cause.

Really? How come I don't know the membership of SunCokeWatch?
What is the goal of SunCokeWatch? Who is really in charge? Why do you not have a facebook page or a up to date website. Is that doing things exactly right?

It is council to blame for their poor judgment.
Are you saying it was poor judgement for council to sue SunCoke?

I am pretty sure that if there was an issue that directly effected your neighborhood and property values that you would be with your neighbors clamoring for council to "do something."

You are right, but I would limit spending to about one million dollars.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Les Lofton[/i]
[br]Mr. Beagle, SuncokeWatch did things exactly right for their cause. They got you to help pay their legal bills. It is council to blame for their poor judgment. I am pretty sure that if there was an issue that directly effected your neighborhood and property values that you would be with your neighbors clamoring for council to "do something."


"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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John Beagle
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Posted - 12/14/2010 :  11:21:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

The rule of the internet is .....

You tell your story, or you let others tell your story.

"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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Les Lofton
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Posted - 12/15/2010 :  02:59:05 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

They got council to fight their fight for them with your money without you even knowing much about them. I think that is exactly right from their perspective, not yours. Yes, I think council used poor judgment in taking on a legal case that was sure to be long and expensive with a low probability of winning (if necessary, SunCoke's attorneys could probably delay the final decision for as long as their 20-year contract with AK). And it would be noble of you to stop the council from wasting any more than $1 million for your neighborhood. I guess with the way governments spend these days, having them risk wasting $1 million or less for you is being fiscally conservative.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by John Beagle[/i]
[br]SuncokeWatch did things exactly right for their cause.

Really? How come I don't know the membership of SunCokeWatch?
What is the goal of SunCokeWatch? Who is really in charge? Why do you not have a facebook page or a up to date website. Is that doing things exactly right?

It is council to blame for their poor judgment.
Are you saying it was poor judgement for council to sue SunCoke?

I am pretty sure that if there was an issue that directly effected your neighborhood and property values that you would be with your neighbors clamoring for council to "do something."

You are right, but I would limit spending to about one million dollars.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Les Lofton[/i]
[br]Mr. Beagle, SuncokeWatch did things exactly right for their cause. They got you to help pay their legal bills. It is council to blame for their poor judgment. I am pretty sure that if there was an issue that directly effected your neighborhood and property values that you would be with your neighbors clamoring for council to "do something."




It's almost worth the Great Depression, to learn how little our big men know.
-Will Rogers
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John Beagle
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Posted - 12/15/2010 :  10:13:01 AM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Les said, " I guess with the way governments spend these days, having them risk wasting $1 million or less for you is being fiscally conservative."

I say, "I was being facetious."

"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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School Levy Debate Goes Down to the Wire
Give with target - Monroe elementary
School Audit is Complete
 
Political Voice
Democrats want America to fail
Clint Eastwood’s Critical Speech to the RNC
 
For Sale
Miami vs Providence hockey $15 tickets!
#4 Miami Redhawks vs Providence Tickets
 
Real Estate
3 bedroom house for rent - 825
3 bed/2bath townhouse for RENT - $800
 
Wanted
Debts to Collect on Contingency Basis
Drivers Disk for Dell Dimension 3000
 
For Free
Free male neutered cat
free furniture alert
 
Jobs
Earn Money Writing Articles for Local Events
Guy & Eva Style Advisor
 
Charter Review
Charter Review Commission 2011 Recommendations
Section 7.13 Public Hearing on Zoning Ordinance or
 
Veterans
Veterans Memorial Dedication May 22@6
Monroe Veterans Memorial Video
 
Memorial
Geneva Wells of Monroe, Ohio
In Remembrance of Alice Rose Salzman
 
Prayer Requests
Prayers for Kenny Ellis & Family
Prayers Needed
 
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Main Street Monroe was started by Monroe, Ohio resident John Beagle in 1998