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Ursosju25
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Posted - 12/18/2007 :  10:21:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

http://www.middletownjournal.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2007/12/16/mj121607dukereality.html

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Posted - 12/18/2007 :  10:23:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

That would be great. I know a few people that have worked for Home Depot in the stores. I believe the pay fairly decent, but no discounts. Would think that would be the same for a warehouse.

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Ursosju25
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Posted - 12/18/2007 :  10:25:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

So from what I can tell here is some $$$$ for the school. A step in the right direction.

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No money
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Posted - 12/18/2007 :  10:28:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Don't give away this one Monroe
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Tracy
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Posted - 12/18/2007 :  10:29:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by No money[/i]
[br]Better than shopping at Lowe's
Don't give away this one Monroe



What did monroe give away before this?

TRACY
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No money
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Posted - 12/18/2007 :  10:40:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

GM
What West Chester may soon enjoy
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buckeyenut
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Posted - 12/18/2007 :  11:31:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I think there was more to the GM deal than we all know. Not sure if it was a good deal or not.
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Tracy
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Posted - 12/19/2007 :  12:58:58 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by No money[/i]
[br]GM
What West Chester may soon enjoy



As I posted in another thread Gm left we did not chase them away. They have also left 6 other communities besides ours. They decided they wanted a building that already existed. We do not have any building in Monroe that fits their needs.

Remember those jobs are already filled and will not be available to local residents until those currently in those jobs retire or leave. After the companies 15 year tax abatement's they have a history of leaving. Please check GM's track record and then you may rethink your position.

TRACY
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Ursosju25
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Posted - 12/19/2007 :  08:29:04 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

The Middletown journal is making Monroe look like the fall guy for the GM deal when it was not us. They wanted a 100% tax abatement and were not going to give the schools the money they wanted and also most of the jobs would not be in Monroe as Tracy said. This was NOT a good deal for Monroe and West Chester can have them. Now we have another deal with a 80% tax abatement which seems resonable to work with and I think we can get the deal done with Home Depot. Bob, Tracy do you support the deal with Home Depot? What are some questions you have for Home Depot? Will this be on the first council agenda in January?

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monroegardener
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Posted - 12/19/2007 :  08:47:11 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Ursosju25[/i]
[br]The Middletown journal is making Monroe look like the fall guy for the GM deal when it was not us. They wanted a 100% tax abatement and were not going to give the schools the money they wanted and also most of the jobs would not be in Monroe as Tracy said. This was NOT a good deal for Monroe and West Chester can have them. Now we have another deal with a 80% tax abatement which seems resonable to work with and I think we can get the deal done with Home Depot. Bob, Tracy do you support the deal with Home Depot? What are some questions you have for Home Depot? Will this be on the first council agenda in January?



Questions I have about Home Depot:
How long would this 80% abatement be effective?
What will an 80% abatement mean to Monroe local schools, in dollars per year, for the term of that abatement?
Is Home Depot offering anything else, contractually, to the school district to offset the 80%?
What is Home Depot's track record with regard to the tenancy of their warehouses? How long, realistically, can we expect Home Depot to be here after the 80% abatement term ends?
If they come here under an 80% abatement, given the number of jobs they will bring, what kind of numbers of students can we expect (it would be an estimate, I know, but surely there exists some kind of average somewhere based on statistics) to come in with the warehouse?
Will the 20%, plus whatever (if any) else Home Depot has to offer to the school district, cover the costs incurred to the school district by this possible increase in the number of students?

Less school oriented:
Will Monroe's infrastructure currently in place adequately support this business?

Ummmm, guess I'm kinda fixated on mostly school-oriented questions for Home Depot.

Nature is ever at work building and pulling down, creating and destroying, keeping everything whirling and flowing, allowing no rest but in rhythmical motion, chasing everything in endless song out of one beautiful form into another. -John Muir, Naturalist and explorer (1838-1914)
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John Beagle
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Posted - 12/19/2007 :  3:43:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Duke Realty Corp. is seeking a 15-year, 80-percent tax abatement from Monroe Local Schools.

Read complete article:Home Depot Deal; Does it makes the schools whole?


"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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bb1
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Posted - 12/19/2007 :  4:29:20 PM  Show Profile  Click to see bb1's MSN Messenger address  Send bb1 a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

If it does come to pass, I will never see my dad again.

However, if there is a chance I could get a job there in the near future $12 an hour does not seem too bad. For me, that is.
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HBG
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Posted - 12/19/2007 :  4:33:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

bb1...it's not a store, but a warehouse...unless you think your dad will be working there

My dad used to say, 'You wouldn't worry so much about what people thought about you if you knew how seldom they did.
Phil McGraw
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bb1
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Posted - 12/19/2007 :  4:58:46 PM  Show Profile  Click to see bb1's MSN Messenger address  Send bb1 a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Oh. A warehouse?

That sucks the big one. Why not a store?
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Eagle
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Posted - 12/19/2007 :  5:23:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit Eagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Yeah i had my hopes up on a store as well.


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Bob Kelley
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Posted - 12/19/2007 :  5:26:54 PM  Show Profile  Send Bob Kelley an AOL message  Send Bob Kelley a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Not enough people who can make change without a computer......
quote:
[i]Originally posted by bb1[/i]
[br]Oh. A warehouse?

That sucks the big one. Why not a store?


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John Beagle
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Posted - 12/19/2007 :  5:31:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

It would be good because the wages are in the $12 to $18 per hour range and would employ more workers than a store.


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Tom B
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Posted - 12/20/2007 :  04:21:54 AM  Show Profile  Visit Tom B's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by monroegardener[/i]
[br][quote][i]Questions I have about Home Depot:
How long would this 80% abatement be effective?
What will an 80% abatement mean to Monroe local schools, in dollars per year, for the term of that abatement?
Is Home Depot offering anything else, contractually, to the school district to offset the 80%?
What is Home Depot's track record with regard to the tenancy of their warehouses? How long, realistically, can we expect Home Depot to be here after the 80% abatement term ends?
If they come here under an 80% abatement, given the number of jobs they will bring, what kind of numbers of students can we expect (it would be an estimate, I know, but surely there exists some kind of average somewhere based on statistics) to come in with the warehouse?
Will the 20%, plus whatever (if any) else Home Depot has to offer to the school district, cover the costs incurred to the school district by this possible increase in the number of students?

Ummmm, guess I'm kinda fixated on mostly school-oriented questions for Home Depot.



For some of the answers, please note my post at http://www.mainstreetmonroe.com/Voice/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7288

As for the number of students it will bring, I don't think there is a clear answer. The Vandercar project is expected to employ 6,000 or more people ultimately, and the city gave them 100% abatement partially because the "experts" said their low pay rates, similar to Home Depot's, would not permit employees to move to Monroe, and hence from that, a belief that it would cause no financial impact to the schools.

I believe that is an underestimate of large proportion, but don't know of any independent and unbiased source to get such information. If anyone else does I surely hope they share it.

As for Home Depot's record for tenancy, I don't see an answer to that one either. A huge portion of their growth and market share occurred in the past 15 years, so I doubt there is a useful historical basis to evaluate them. Given their incredible growth rate, most of their abated buildings must still be in the abated stage.

There is a general trend in the county for warehouse type businesses to move when abatements end. Lower 747 is full of empty buildings. But despite the legal definition of 80% abatement, HD is effectively paying the full local school tax fare from day one. So I just don't see them driven to bail out when the abatement ends. I think their advantage in this abatement deal, with "donations" to the school district, serves to lower their state and federal tax income, much more than reductions in local taxes.

Tom Birdwell

Opinions written here are mine alone, and may not reflect the views of other board members.


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Tom B
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Posted - 12/20/2007 :  04:24:41 AM  Show Profile  Visit Tom B's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Ursosju25[/i]
[br]The Middletown journal is making Monroe look like the fall guy for the GM deal when it was not us. They wanted a 100% tax abatement and were not going to give the schools the money they wanted and also most of the jobs would not be in Monroe as Tracy said.


Actually Steve, the GM deal was fairly favorable to the school district. It just didn't meet the city's infrastructure costs needs.

Tom Birdwell

Opinions written here are mine alone, and may not reflect the views of other board members.


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Tracy
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Posted - 12/20/2007 :  06:57:30 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Tom Birdwell[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Ursosju25[/i]
[br]The Middletown journal is making Monroe look like the fall guy for the GM deal when it was not us. They wanted a 100% tax abatement and were not going to give the schools the money they wanted and also most of the jobs would not be in Monroe as Tracy said.


Actually Steve, the GM deal was fairly favorable to the school district. It just didn't meet the city's infrastructure costs needs.



Tom, the deal did not met GM's needs that is why they are not here. They talked a good game at the council meeting and then changed the plans they had. Instead of building a new building, they went with a spec building already completed in west Chester. We did not have a building the size they wanted or they would still be working with the city.

TRACY
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monroegardener
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Posted - 12/20/2007 :  08:01:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Tom Birdwell[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by monroegardener[/i]
[br][quote][i]Questions I have about Home Depot:
How long would this 80% abatement be effective?
What will an 80% abatement mean to Monroe local schools, in dollars per year, for the term of that abatement?
Is Home Depot offering anything else, contractually, to the school district to offset the 80%?
What is Home Depot's track record with regard to the tenancy of their warehouses? How long, realistically, can we expect Home Depot to be here after the 80% abatement term ends?
If they come here under an 80% abatement, given the number of jobs they will bring, what kind of numbers of students can we expect (it would be an estimate, I know, but surely there exists some kind of average somewhere based on statistics) to come in with the warehouse?
Will the 20%, plus whatever (if any) else Home Depot has to offer to the school district, cover the costs incurred to the school district by this possible increase in the number of students?

Ummmm, guess I'm kinda fixated on mostly school-oriented questions for Home Depot.



For some of the answers, please note my post at http://www.mainstreetmonroe.com/Voice/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7288

As for the number of students it will bring, I don't think there is a clear answer. The Vandercar project is expected to employ 6,000 or more people ultimately, and the city gave them 100% abatement partially because the "experts" said their low pay rates, similar to Home Depot's, would not permit employees to move to Monroe, and hence from that, a belief that it would cause no financial impact to the schools.

I believe that is an underestimate of large proportion, but don't know of any independent and unbiased source to get such information. If anyone else does I surely hope they share it.

As for Home Depot's record for tenancy, I don't see an answer to that one either. A huge portion of their growth and market share occurred in the past 15 years, so I doubt there is a useful historical basis to evaluate them. Given their incredible growth rate, most of their abated buildings must still be in the abated stage.

There is a general trend in the county for warehouse type businesses to move when abatements end. Lower 747 is full of empty buildings. But despite the legal definition of 80% abatement, HD is effectively paying the full local school tax fare from day one. So I just don't see them driven to bail out when the abatement ends. I think their advantage in this abatement deal, with "donations" to the school district, serves to lower their state and federal tax income, much more than reductions in local taxes.




Tom,

Thanks for answering the abatement/school benefit portion. It seems like it would be a good deal, at least from the standpoint of the financial benefit to the school system.

Can anybody tackle the other questions I posed?

Nature is ever at work building and pulling down, creating and destroying, keeping everything whirling and flowing, allowing no rest but in rhythmical motion, chasing everything in endless song out of one beautiful form into another. -John Muir, Naturalist and explorer (1838-1914)
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Ursosju25
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Posted - 12/20/2007 :  08:28:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Ursosju25[/i]
[br]The Middletown journal is making Monroe look like the fall guy for the GM deal when it was not us. They wanted a 100% tax abatement and were not going to give the schools the money they wanted and also most of the jobs would not be in Monroe as Tracy said. This was NOT a good deal for Monroe and West Chester can have them. Now we have another deal with a 80% tax abatement which seems resonable to work with and I think we can get the deal done with Home Depot. Bob, Tracy do you support the deal with Home Depot? What are some questions you have for Home Depot? Will this be on the first council agenda in January?



Some very logical questions were geared towards some people on here and an answer would be well be well apprciated.

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John Beagle
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Posted - 12/20/2007 :  09:32:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Kelly Thorpe, our school treasurer has added the following statement to the dialog:

"I do think if we can get the agreement hammered out and finalized, it will be a good deal for the school. The city will get to give their abatement, but the district wont suffer financially for it."

Breaking Story on Schools take on the Home Depot Deal, will be updated throught the day

"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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scooter
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Posted - 12/20/2007 :  11:09:41 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

So HD will get an abatement from the city but they will still have to pay the school taxes at 100%? Is that a fair assumption of what has been said?

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Bob Kelley
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Posted - 12/20/2007 :  11:30:25 AM  Show Profile  Send Bob Kelley an AOL message  Send Bob Kelley a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

What you see is the school deal, it has not been before council yet.
quote:
[i]Originally posted by scooter[/i]
[br]So HD will get an abatement from the city but they will still have to pay the school taxes at 100%? Is that a fair assumption of what has been said?


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scooter
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Posted - 12/20/2007 :  11:43:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

OK, I see now. So I suppose Duke Realty has informed HD that if they ask for 80% from the schools then the city will likely approve 100% from them. I guess its better to get something than nothing.

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Bob Kelley
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Posted - 12/20/2007 :  11:55:44 AM  Show Profile  Send Bob Kelley an AOL message  Send Bob Kelley a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Your on drugs aren't you? Smell of weed eater oil rotting your brains?.....LOL

If the school approves 80% for example, the city can only approve up to that amount or less. The school wanted to be in the process now they are, they are setting the bar where ever they want it. As Tom has said anything over 50% has to be approved by the school, the council will decide what to do with whatever the school gives us to work with.

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scooter
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Posted - 12/20/2007 :  1:55:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Come on Bob, I'm just high on life!!! (cough, cough)

I guess I just dont understand the whole tax abatement process. I thought there were two tax issues one for the city, and one for the schools. But I guess its only one issue and its up to the city to see how much the schools get and how much the city gets. Right?

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Bob Kelley
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Posted - 12/20/2007 :  2:21:12 PM  Show Profile  Send Bob Kelley an AOL message  Send Bob Kelley a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

That's closer, the way the process works today, the school gets 1st crack to see what deal they get, then we work off of that deal. That way, if they agree first Tom should have no reason to get on here and cry they got screwed in the abatement deal. They make their own bed. If we can draw business with what they give us we will and if we can't well you get the picture. It's still one abatement, we share your tax dollar, they get like .75 cents of each dollar and we get around .14 cents on the dollar, the rest goes to the county, JVS, etc. That's why they are impacted so heavily in an abatement deal.

Does that help?

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scooter
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Posted - 12/20/2007 :  2:31:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Now it all makes cents. LOL

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Tom B
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Posted - 12/22/2007 :  01:40:32 AM  Show Profile  Visit Tom B's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bob Kelley[/i]
[br]What you see is the school deal, it has not been before council yet.


School deal? It has not been to school board either Bob. It was instead negotiated by a joint team of city and school administration, in the city building itself. If the city administration is negotiating agreements in a manner not acceptable to council, then something is wrong and needs to be fixed. Working in such fashion is a huge waste of effort for the city, the school district, and will result in a bad community image when companies consider coming to Monroe.

We simply have to find a way to mutually enable our school and city staff's to negotiate best possible outcomes for the community, and have the results in line with and supported by board and council. It is just not reasonable for council or board to personally run every negotiation that comes by. That approach is very slow, and would result in our community missing out on great opportunities, as other communities act in more agile fashion.

Tom Birdwell

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Eagle
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Posted - 12/22/2007 :  01:49:19 AM  Show Profile  Visit Eagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Keyword- mutually. Tom are you suggesting there are closed door meetings taking place?


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Tom B
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Posted - 12/22/2007 :  04:40:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit Tom B's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Eagle[/i]
[br]Keyword- mutually. Tom are you suggesting there are closed door meetings taking place?



No John, I am saying that the city and school administrations seemed to have worked together, cooperatively, to achieve a shared goal. No need for closed doors on tha one. Think of zen... ohmmm... Mutual...

I find that concept pretty refreshing, and think it has a lot of potential to help Monroe's future growth. It was long overdue. And I think the schools certainly were at least as much a past obstacle to that cooperation as was the city. If both city council and school board can provide clear direction to our senior administrators on what to go after, what to reject, and define some clear team negotiating space in doing so, they can be pretty agile and achieve good results. It comes down to the defined goals of the full council and the defined goals of the full board, and both being delegated for administrative action by our organizational leaders.

Tom Birdwell

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Eagle
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Posted - 12/22/2007 :  08:55:52 AM  Show Profile  Visit Eagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Yes, That sounds like a good change. Thanks for clairifying that Tom.


quote:
[i]Originally posted by Tom Birdwell[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Eagle[/i]
[br]Keyword- mutually. Tom are you suggesting there are closed door meetings taking place?



No John, I am saying that the city and school administrations seemed to have worked together, cooperatively, to achieve a shared goal. No need for closed doors on tha one. Think of zen... ohmmm... Mutual...

I find that concept pretty refreshing, and think it has a lot of potential to help Monroe's future growth. It was long overdue. And I think the schools certainly were at least as much a past obstacle to that cooperation as was the city. If both city council and school board can provide clear direction to our senior administrators on what to go after, what to reject, and define some clear team negotiating space in doing so, they can be pretty agile and achieve good results. It comes down to the defined goals of the full council and the defined goals of the full board, and both being delegated for administrative action by our organizational leaders.



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Prayers for Kenny Ellis & Family
Prayers Needed
 
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Main Street Monroe was started by Monroe, Ohio resident John Beagle in 1998