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2015 Hornets
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Posted - 03/09/2008 :  6:47:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit 2015 Hornets's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I don't think it's clear that the citizens of Monroe cannot and will not take on any additional tax burden. I think everyone just wants to be positive things are being done right first. Sometimes when you tell someone no you see different options come out, like 12 months of school. Hopefully even more will come out between now and Nov and we'll get a different outcome. This election the no vote was more motivated to get to the polls, now that supporters have seen this maybe a larger percentage will get out and show their support. Just the way this simpleton sees it.
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blueblood
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Posted - 03/09/2008 :  6:50:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by 2015 Hornets[/i]
[br]I don't think it's clear that the citizens of Monroe cannot and will not take on any additional tax burden. I think everyone just wants to be positive things are being done right first. Sometimes when you tell someone no you see different options come out, like 12 months of school. Hopefully even more will come out between now and Nov and we'll get a different outcome. This election the no vote was more motivated to get to the polls, now that supporters have seen this maybe a larger percentage will get out and show their support. Just the way this simpleton sees it.



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Tom B
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Posted - 03/09/2008 :  7:03:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit Tom B's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by TDdaddy[/i]
[br]Year Round??? Divided in groups??? Are siblings in the same groups???



In the Texas school I visited, yes, they did their very best to make sure siblings were in the same groups. The only exceptions were for special classes small enough so that they were only taught once per year. That can be handled through scheduling of these classes with forethought however.
quote:


What is the amount this will save the district since there will be increased overhead expenses from salary, electric, buses, fuel, food during the summer months that would normally be vacant. May just be me but I do not see the savings being that big of a difference.


There are no operations savings from this approach. Operations costs are determined by the number of students taught. It doesn't matter much when you teach them. The savings come purely from not having to fund a bond issue to expand school capacity. You get 25% more student capacity without funding a new building.
quote:

As for year round schools and risking my children being in the winter off group that would be something that would make me consider moving to another district.


And me as well if my kids were still in school. Guys I don't like the family aspects of this approach. I said that. But it remains a viable capacity option if our community can't or won't fund a bond issue and an operating issue necessary to handle expected enrollment growth.

Some of you are saying you would choose to move if we did this. Others are saying they would be financially forced to move if we passed a bond issue and taxes went up. Yet somehow we have to provide for growth capacity. No solution is going to make everyone happy here.
quote:

Ohio seriously needs to evaluate what it is doing WRONG with school funding. There was a thing on the new that said something like 88 of 110 (not sure of exact) school levies on the ballot failed. Not gonna get any better in November. Economy is tough and people are strapped as it is, more taxes are something people can't swallow even if it is the best thing for their kids education.


I completely agree that HB920 must be eliminated and the 23 mill phantom revenue clause removed from state assistance calculations. That would eliminate almost most levys.

But there is no solution for overall funding shortfalls out there that will not cause a tax increase. The state budget is strapped. If they increase state contributions to local education, they will have to increase our state income taxes to pay for it. Over 80% of state funding is locked up in Medicaid, education, and prisons. That leaves virtually no cash pool out there to pull from.

The whole situation is a mess.

Tom Birdwell

Opinions written here are mine alone, and may not reflect the views of other board members.


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Ursosju25
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Posted - 03/09/2008 :  7:09:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I am going to be very blunt about this and say this idea SUCKS. Please look at other options instead of laying this on the tax payers and finding a way to punish them or back them into a corner to pass the next bond issue. Please do not play those tactics Tom. First option would be to look at a cheaper way to add to the current building like originally planned then use the old elementary for K-2 and add to the existing school to facilitate 3-6 I am sure that would cost less then the 28MIL you asked for. I told this to some people that are going to have kids going into the district soon and they would consider moving under your plan.

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scooter
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Posted - 03/09/2008 :  7:10:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I would go for year round schooling. With the breaks in between, I dont think it would be a big deal. The more education the better. I work with a japanese man that has went to school year round for 19 years. He has 3 Masters degrees, speaks 7 languages and is 26 years old. He isn't a Doogie Howser either. He has done year round schooling since he was five.

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Instigator
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Posted - 03/09/2008 :  7:11:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

This is a scare tactic that will not work. Options need to be looked at and the board knows that parents do not want year round school. Being a representative of the Monroe Local school district his opinion is going to be construed as what the board is looking at. His opinion has been true to what has been done in the past. I would hope that other board members will not try this tactic. Dr Fink for school board.
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Bretland
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Posted - 03/09/2008 :  7:12:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Tom,

You stated: "I completely agree that HB920 must be eliminated and the 23 mill phantom revenue clause removed from state assistance calculations. That would eliminate almost most levys."

It might eliminate local levies, BUT wouldn't the State have to significantly raise our payroll taxes? And, would we get to vote on those tax increases?

I wish people would quit turning to the State for solutions. The State is very inefficient and they cannot do nearly as good a job as local administrators. We need to work our issues with school funding out at the local level.

Am I wrong? Is there a huge non-tax funding source at the State that I'm not aware of?

Thanks,

Bob B




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Ursosju25
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Posted - 03/09/2008 :  7:14:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Instigator[/i]
[br]This is a scare tactic that will not work. Options need to be looked at and the board knows that parents do not want year round school. Being a representative of the Monroe Local school district his opinion is going to be construed as what the board is looking at. His opinion has been true to what has been done in the past. I would hope that other board members will not try this tactic. Dr Fink for school board.



Yeah he will say this is NOT a scare tactic when it clearly is. Sad story! Good Post Mr.Instigator!

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scooter
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Posted - 03/09/2008 :  7:15:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I would be interested to see a mock vote on the year round schooling. I think you all may be surprised. What is the problem with it anyways? More countries in the world do it, than not.

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lak713
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Posted - 03/09/2008 :  7:17:18 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Tom - Just to be clear, is your proposal the one listed below as Multi-Track? There seems to be some misunderstanding about your year round proposal.

Vocabulary of Year-Round Schools
(Sources: National Association for Year-Round Education, National Education Commission on Time and Learning)

Intersessions are periods of time during which the students do not officially attend school. Intersession activities can have remediation or enrichment classes as well as vacation periods.

Multi-Track (MT) year-round education is a way to enroll more students per building, usually by dividing the total number of students enrolled into groups. Several groups are always in school; one group is always on intersession.

Single-Track (ST) year-round education means that all students and teachers follow the same calendar of being in school for an instructional period or being on intersession.

Traditional Calendar (TC) is the traditional nine months instructional calendar, September through June, with 2.5 - 3 months vacation in the summer.

Year-Round Education (YRE) or extended school year means shortening vacations to add more than 180 instructional days to the school year.

Year-Round School (YRS) is a change in the calendar schedule in which students are in school for a minimum of 180 instructional days. Year-round school is an alternative schedule for learning, not an alternative curriculum. Instructional blocks of learning and intersession breaks are evenly distributed throughout a 12-month calendar year and can be of varying lengths.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by blueblood[/i]
[br]Tom is getting pummeled here for this idea, but outside of "don't worry it will take care of itself", I haven't heard any other workable solutions!!!!!!

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Ursosju25
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Posted - 03/09/2008 :  7:21:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

What do you do about teachers?
Will certain teachers get a session off?
Will they have to work year round?


I think the last question would be NO because teachers are only contracted to work around 185 days per 365 school year. So with that said you are going to have to hire more teachers? Hire more administrators? Then other expenses will be added on also lunches,electricity etc.. So much will it cost to do all this? Estimation? Will this cause a levy to come before the voters to fund this?

I like the idea of year round school where everyone goes not where a group has it off. JMO

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HornetMom2
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Posted - 03/09/2008 :  7:24:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I would also like to bring up Steve's point earlier about fundraising, casino night, "renting" out the stadium, etc. What about working together with the city for the 4th of July celebration at the park with a percentage of proceeds going to the school? I think there are so many things that could be done that when added together could raise a signification amount of money.
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Instigator
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Posted - 03/09/2008 :  7:27:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I would like to bring up the fact that Edgewood has added on and remodeled all of their buildings and have less students not passing the OGT than Monroe.
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lak713
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Posted - 03/09/2008 :  7:59:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

IMO - The two districts look VERY similar in test scores with Monroe ahead in a number of areas.

Edgewood - http://www.ode.state.oh.us/reportcardfiles/2006-2007/DIST/046094.PDF

Monroe - http://www.ode.state.oh.us/reportcardfiles/2006-2007/DIST/139303.PDF

*Edgewood also has MORE facilities in which to renovate, add-on, etc. Monroe is already renovating/using the old elem. I think most agree it's not fiscally responsible to even entertain the use of the old high school.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Instigator[/i]
[br]I would like to bring up the fact that Edgewood has added on and remodeled all of their buildings and have less students not passing the OGT than Monroe.

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Instigator
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Posted - 03/09/2008 :  8:12:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Edgewood has more students and have less students still needing to pass the OGT. I agree with not putting money in the old high school but the old elementary still has about 20 rooms that can be used for students. Money could be saved by making some improvements and adding onto the building like Edgewood has done to their buildings.
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Ursosju25
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Posted - 03/09/2008 :  8:18:06 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Instigator[/i]
[br]Edgewood has more students and have less students still needing to pass the OGT. I agree with not putting money in the old high school but the old elementary still has about 20 rooms that can be used for students. Money could be saved by making some improvements and adding onto the building like Edgewood has done to their buildings.



Well I been saying this all along and it seems to me that the old building can only be used temporary and all this other stuff Mr.Birdwell has said but I think we can work out a plan to use the old Elementary for the future and simply add onto the existing school. I know Lakota added on to their High School. too.

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lak713
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Posted - 03/09/2008 :  8:23:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

It is my understanding that the old elementary will be at capacity plus using mods next year already - they've been renovating those rooms the past couple of months.

There isn't a capacity problem NOW (2007-2008)or next school year (2008-2009), it's going to hit Monroe in 2009-2010 and there after. Eventually, Monroe will run out of space even after exhausting present facilities with add-ons...it takes 2-3 years to build...

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Instigator[/i]
[br]Edgewood has more students and have less students still needing to pass the OGT. I agree with not putting money in the old high school but the old elementary still has about 20 rooms that can be used for students. Money could be saved by making some improvements and adding onto the building like Edgewood has done to their buildings.

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Instigator
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Posted - 03/09/2008 :  8:53:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Let me ask you something. If I add a wing to either building new or old elementary and that wing or wings will hold 1300 students and I would not have to build more gyms, parking and so on, would it cost me more or less. They want to build a separate school to house 1300 k-4 students. WE have a building that will hold 650 students on Macready. If you add enough class rooms to that building to hold a total of 1300 students you have saved the tax payer money. When I say class rooms I'm talking about a wing off of the original school not a modular.
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Tom B
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Posted - 03/09/2008 :  10:44:18 PM  Show Profile  Visit Tom B's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bretland[/i]
[br]Tom,

You stated: "I completely agree that HB920 must be eliminated and the 23 mill phantom revenue clause removed from state assistance calculations. That would eliminate almost most levys."

It might eliminate local levies, BUT wouldn't the State have to significantly raise our payroll taxes? And, would we get to vote on those tax increases?



Bob, have you lost your glasses again, or been at the bottle?

Right under the line you quoted, it follows:
"But there is no solution for overall funding shortfalls out there that will not cause a tax increase. The state budget is strapped. If they increase state contributions to local education, they will have to increase our state income taxes to pay for it. Over 80% of state funding is locked up in Medicaid, education, and prisons. That leaves virtually no cash pool out there to pull from."

Aren't we saying the same thing Bob?




Tom Birdwell

Opinions written here are mine alone, and may not reflect the views of other board members.


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Tom B
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Posted - 03/09/2008 :  10:47:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit Tom B's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Yes, it is the multi-track year round. It is not a new idea, just a way to expand physical capacity on a budget.




quote:
[i]Originally posted by lak713[/i]
[br]Tom - Just to be clear, is your proposal the one listed below as Multi-Track? There seems to be some misunderstanding about your year round proposal.

Vocabulary of Year-Round Schools
(Sources: National Association for Year-Round Education, National Education Commission on Time and Learning)

Intersessions are periods of time during which the students do not officially attend school. Intersession activities can have remediation or enrichment classes as well as vacation periods.

Multi-Track (MT) year-round education is a way to enroll more students per building, usually by dividing the total number of students enrolled into groups. Several groups are always in school; one group is always on intersession.

Single-Track (ST) year-round education means that all students and teachers follow the same calendar of being in school for an instructional period or being on intersession.

Traditional Calendar (TC) is the traditional nine months instructional calendar, September through June, with 2.5 - 3 months vacation in the summer.

Year-Round Education (YRE) or extended school year means shortening vacations to add more than 180 instructional days to the school year.

Year-Round School (YRS) is a change in the calendar schedule in which students are in school for a minimum of 180 instructional days. Year-round school is an alternative schedule for learning, not an alternative curriculum. Instructional blocks of learning and intersession breaks are evenly distributed throughout a 12-month calendar year and can be of varying lengths.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by blueblood[/i]
[br]Tom is getting pummeled here for this idea, but outside of "don't worry it will take care of itself", I haven't heard any other workable solutions!!!!!!




Tom Birdwell

Opinions written here are mine alone, and may not reflect the views of other board members.


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bb1
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Posted - 03/09/2008 :  11:07:45 PM  Show Profile  Click to see bb1's MSN Messenger address  Send bb1 a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Hello multi-track, good-bye band camp!
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Tom B
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Posted - 03/09/2008 :  11:18:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit Tom B's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Ursosju25[/i]
[br]What do you do about teachers?
Will certain teachers get a session off?
Will they have to work year round?

I think the last question would be NO because teachers are only contracted to work around 185 days per 365 school year. So with that said you are going to have to hire more teachers? Hire more administrators? Then other expenses will be added on also lunches,electricity etc.. So much will it cost to do all this? Estimation? Will this cause a levy to come before the voters to fund this?

I like the idea of year round school where everyone goes not where a group has it off. JMO



OK Steve, for starters, the operational costs of a multi-track year round school are just about exactly the same as any other school schedule. School operations costs are all but entirely dependent on the number of kids educated, not when they happen to be taught. If you add 25% more kids, absolutely you will have to hire about 25%more teachers, cooks, etc. But that is true regardless of if they are in a new or old building, and regardless of when they go to school. Muli-track year round schools simply add 25% capacity at no facilities cost. It is the rough equivilent of our getting a 13 million dollar facility expansion for free.

The Texas school I visited had some neat options for teachers. Teachers who wanted to work year round, and whose skills were needed were able to do so. This raised their pay, and was really popular in the years just prior to retirement obviously, as it increased their retirement pay. More than a few teachers work summer jobs anyway, and this systems lets employment continue year round at the school if desired and needed. Not every teacher can choose when they get off obviously, so if memory serves, it was determined by seniority, within skill groups.

Correct me if I am wrong Steve, but weren't you one of the ones screaming that our taxes were simply unbearable now, that we must not raise them, and that if we did people would have to move away?


Tom Birdwell

Opinions written here are mine alone, and may not reflect the views of other board members.


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Tom B
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Posted - 03/09/2008 :  11:25:45 PM  Show Profile  Visit Tom B's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Instigator[/i]
[br]Let me ask you something. If I add a wing to either building new or old elementary and that wing or wings will hold 1300 students and I would not have to build more gyms, parking and so on, would it cost me more or less. They want to build a separate school to house 1300 k-4 students. WE have a building that will hold 650 students on Macready. If you add enough class rooms to that building to hold a total of 1300 students you have saved the tax payer money. When I say class rooms I'm talking about a wing off of the original school not a modular.



I have answered this for you before. We can't add capacity to the old elementary school, as its core facilities, cafeteria, kitchen, gym, were designed for 450 kids and are sized for that. We already stretched them too far with the modulars. We can make some additions to the new building, but there is simply no way to put 1,300 more kids through the core of the new building either, for the same reason. If you add 1,300 kids, you need gym, cafeteria, and auditorium space for that many more kids and parents. It all scales together.

Tom Birdwell

Opinions written here are mine alone, and may not reflect the views of other board members.


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Bob Kelley
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Posted - 03/10/2008 :  12:28:01 AM  Show Profile  Send Bob Kelley an AOL message  Send Bob Kelley a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

How many could you add to the new building without adding additional support areas?
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Tom Birdwell[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Instigator[/i]
[br]Let me ask you something. If I add a wing to either building new or old elementary and that wing or wings will hold 1300 students and I would not have to build more gyms, parking and so on, would it cost me more or less. They want to build a separate school to house 1300 k-4 students. WE have a building that will hold 650 students on Macready. If you add enough class rooms to that building to hold a total of 1300 students you have saved the tax payer money. When I say class rooms I'm talking about a wing off of the original school not a modular.



I have answered this for you before. We can't add capacity to the old elementary school, as its core facilities, cafeteria, kitchen, gym, were designed for 450 kids and are sized for that. We already stretched them too far with the modulars. We can make some additions to the new building, but there is simply no way to put 1,300 more kids through the core of the new building either, for the same reason. If you add 1,300 kids, you need gym, cafeteria, and auditorium space for that many more kids and parents. It all scales together.


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itbedave
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Posted - 03/10/2008 :  08:52:44 AM  Show Profile  Send itbedave an AOL message  Send itbedave a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Instigator[/i]
[br]This is a scare tactic that will not work. Options need to be looked at and the board knows that parents do not want year round school. Being a representative of the Monroe Local school district his opinion is going to be construed as what the board is looking at. His opinion has been true to what has been done in the past. I would hope that other board members will not try this tactic. Dr Fink for school board.



Maybe it scares you - but it does not scare me. It's a perfectly reasonable solution to a problem that's not going away. And I AM a parent of kids in the district and would certainly consider it - not just for it's cost-savings to the community but for the educational benefits that year-round schooling provides. Although I do not quite agree with Tom's idea for how to break up the students and the year - I would have no problem taking vacations during non-traditional times of the year. Disney in October is much less stressful than in June or July.

It is sooo easy to tear down a solution and call it a scare tactic when you don't agree with it. Very difficult to offer a solution based on fact and knowledge. Keep at it though... hopefully some of us will continue to plan more than 1 or 2 years into the future like Tom is...
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blueblood
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Posted - 03/10/2008 :  09:02:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by itbedave[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Instigator[/i]
[br]This is a scare tactic that will not work. Options need to be looked at and the board knows that parents do not want year round school. Being a representative of the Monroe Local school district his opinion is going to be construed as what the board is looking at. His opinion has been true to what has been done in the past. I would hope that other board members will not try this tactic. Dr Fink for school board.



Maybe it scares you - but it does not scare me. It's a perfectly reasonable solution to a problem that's not going away. And I AM a parent of kids in the district and would certainly consider it - not just for it's cost-savings to the community but for the educational benefits that year-round schooling provides. Although I do not quite agree with Tom's idea for how to break up the students and the year - I would have no problem taking vacations during non-traditional times of the year. Disney in October is much less stressful than in June or July.

It is sooo easy to tear down a solution and call it a scare tactic when you don't agree with it. Very difficult to offer a solution based on fact and knowledge. Keep at it though... hopefully some of us will continue to plan more than 1 or 2 years into the future like Tom is...



I agree. Although this would be a dramatic change from tradition, there are advantages as well and I have two kids in the district.

We were dinks for considerable time and we always took our vacation in the off season, especially if it was extraordinary because it is cheaper. If you look at off season vacations now the prices directly correspond to when our children are out of school (spring breaks, Thanksgiving, Christmas) and being able to pick your best value time in many cases can save over 50%.

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kidrockintrucker
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Posted - 03/10/2008 :  09:46:16 AM  Show Profile  Send kidrockintrucker a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Ok, to kind of stray from the vacation thing, who would decide which kids are off at what times? Does it mean that the football kids get the summer off due to thier 2 a days? And the basketball kids get the winter? Thats not fair. Or the baseball and softball kids get the Spring? And if your child is off during thier sport or sports, all they have to do is practice, and we all know how coaches feel when you plan a vacation during a season. Just some questions I wonder about.
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HBG
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Posted - 03/10/2008 :  09:49:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

my guess would be luck of the draw, if you're involved in sports and it's your off quarter, well then it's tough luck

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itbedave
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Posted - 03/10/2008 :  10:00:29 AM  Show Profile  Send itbedave an AOL message  Send itbedave a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

There are some examples out there where this is already being tried. Let's find some examples before scaring each other through speculation.
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blueblood
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Posted - 03/10/2008 :  10:07:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Anything other than a equal rotation of seasons for EVERYONE will not fly in my opinion!!!!!!!You would do no worse than have one summer every four years. The only real downside I see is the dreaded winter break and three times minimum in a twelve year cycle it would happen.

Let no man pull you low enough to hate him.
-- Martin Luther King Jr.
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HBG
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Posted - 03/10/2008 :  10:09:55 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Maybe I didn't state it the most eloquently I could, but to me that would be the most fair. It is MY assumption that most kids/parents would want the traditional 3 month summer vacation. If fall extra-curriculars are given the summer off don't you think that a high percentage of kids will suddenly be involved in that extra curricular?

My dad used to say, 'You wouldn't worry so much about what people thought about you if you knew how seldom they did.
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blueblood
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Posted - 03/10/2008 :  10:15:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

To me, extracurriculars would/should have NO bearing on the rotation off time. It should also have no effect on whom can do what in any season.

Let no man pull you low enough to hate him.
-- Martin Luther King Jr.
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Bob Kelley
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Posted - 03/10/2008 :  10:16:26 AM  Show Profile  Send Bob Kelley an AOL message  Send Bob Kelley a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

While I think this is a great solution, there are some hurdles to get over to start it. I would venture a guess Tom is not talking about the coming school year but the following one would not be out of the question.

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Sports Mom
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Posted - 03/10/2008 :  10:18:17 AM  Show Profile  Visit Sports Mom's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I found this website about Year Round School... The Coalition of a Traditional School Year.

Please read the information the Academic Research, Economic Research and Related Research. Just a few quotes from the website:

"We have enough problems with families not being as connected with their kids as they should be, and I feel that year-round schools would contribute even more to this problem."

"Many (people) don't have resources to go away for a vacation. That's what's nice about having time off in the summer."

http://www.schoolyear.info/research.html
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buck35
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Posted - 03/10/2008 :  10:24:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

This maybe a dumb question but here it is anyway.
Why would all the grades need to go to school year around if its only the k-4th that's the problem?
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HBG
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Posted - 03/10/2008 :  10:26:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

actually buck, that's probably one of the best questions yet!!!

My dad used to say, 'You wouldn't worry so much about what people thought about you if you knew how seldom they did.
Phil McGraw
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SWC
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Posted - 03/10/2008 :  10:27:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

As I read this thread, several thoughts go through my mind, so I'll try to be as clear as I can...

I am all for verifying the addresses of the students at least once a year. Tracy mentioned using tax documents and I think this would be the most accurate way to do it. For divorced parents (and I fall into this category), court documents could be used to support the residential status of the children NOT listed on the tax forms.

As far as year-round schooling goes, I would support this concept, but NOT under the proposal that Tom mentioned. Having a quarter of our students out at any given time would likely hinder their participation in clubs and sports. Staffing and building usage costs would increase, too. I prefer the Single Track scheduling that Ellie mentioned which is basically nine weeks on and three weeks off. I am a teacher and when doing research, I have given my students the option to learn about year-round schooling and as much as they groan when they first hear about it, they usually decide that the benefits in terms of retention and "mini-vacations" throughout the year are worth it. I know of a few districts in the Dayton area who have gone to this schedule and Franklin was considering it earlier this year. Year-round schooling is not a terrible concept, but I prefer the ST schedule.

One poster also mentioned having two neighborhood K-6 schools and turning the auxiliary gym into eight additional classrooms. I would prefer to see K-3 housed in one building and 4-6 in another and the auxiliary gym should be converted before any additional funds are requested.

Buckeyenut also mentioned class sizes. I can't tell you what a huge difference it makes to have 20...25...or 30 students in a classroom. The larger the class, the more time you spend addressing discipline issues. My smallest class was 12 and this only happened once! My class sizes are usually 24 to 28 and I have found those numbers to be quite manageable.
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Bob Kelley
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Posted - 03/10/2008 :  10:28:37 AM  Show Profile  Send Bob Kelley an AOL message  Send Bob Kelley a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I don't think they would Buck, but it looks like some might be interested in it.

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HBG
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Posted - 03/10/2008 :  10:30:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

so with the ST method teachers will still be working those 3 weeks?

My dad used to say, 'You wouldn't worry so much about what people thought about you if you knew how seldom they did.
Phil McGraw
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Bob Kelley
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Posted - 03/10/2008 :  10:30:39 AM  Show Profile  Send Bob Kelley an AOL message  Send Bob Kelley a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

How does this concept get 25% more kids in and lower classroom size?
quote:
[i]Originally posted by SWC[/i]
[br]As I read this thread, several thoughts go through my mind, so I'll try to be as clear as I can...

I am all for verifying the addresses of the students at least once a year. Tracy mentioned using tax documents and I think this would be the most accurate way to do it. For divorced parents (and I fall into this category), court documents could be used to support the residential status of the children NOT listed on the tax forms.

As far as year-round schooling goes, I would support this concept, but NOT under the proposal that Tom mentioned. Having a quarter of our students out at any given time would likely hinder their participation in clubs and sports. Staffing and building usage costs would increase, too. I prefer the Single Track scheduling that Ellie mentioned which is basically nine weeks on and three weeks off. I am a teacher and when doing research, I have given my students the option to learn about year-round schooling and as much as they groan when they first hear about it, they usually decide that the benefits in terms of retention and "mini-vacations" throughout the year are worth it. I know of a few districts in the Dayton area who have gone to this schedule and Franklin was considering it earlier this year. Year-round schooling is not a terrible concept, but I prefer the ST schedule.

One poster also mentioned having two neighborhood K-6 schools and turning the auxiliary gym into eight additional classrooms. I would prefer to see K-3 housed in one building and 4-6 in another and the auxiliary gym should be converted before any additional funds are requested.

Buckeyenut also mentioned class sizes. I can't tell you what a huge difference it makes to have 20...25...or 30 students in a classroom. The larger the class, the more time you spend addressing discipline issues. My smallest class was 12 and this only happened once! My class sizes are usually 24 to 28 and I have found those numbers to be quite manageable.


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