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John Beagle
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Posted - 05/09/2008 :  10:40:33 AM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

ORDINANCE NO. 2008-20. AN ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTION 1064.02(A) OF CHAPTER 1064 OF THE CODIFIED ORDINANCES OF THE CITY OF MONROE TO PROVIDE FOR THE SALE OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES AT THE MUNICIPAL PARK DURING SPECIAL EVENTS SUBJECT TO APPROVAL OF COUNCIL.

Full Monroe Council Agenda

"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby

Bob Kelley
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Posted - 05/09/2008 :  2:41:14 PM  Show Profile  Send Bob Kelley an AOL message  Send Bob Kelley a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Your loosing your touch to stir the Sh!t John.
Lately your threads have been dropping like pants after an enema.
As your friend, I think that's a load of Sh!t.

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Bretland
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Posted - 05/09/2008 :  4:03:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Thanks for the post John!!!!! I appreciate it.

the OTHER Bob

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John Beagle
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Posted - 05/09/2008 :  4:18:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bretland[/i]
[br]Thanks for the post John!!!!! I appreciate it.

the OTHER Bob



Thanks

I thought everyone ought to know that this is the meeting that council will be discussing sales at the park for the 4th.

Perhaps some who have an opinion will show up to express it.

"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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Bretland
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Posted - 05/09/2008 :  4:23:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

You mean versus sliding it through without anyone knowing about it?
Kind of like "good old boy politics".

"There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary, and those that don't."
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Sports Mom
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Posted - 05/09/2008 :  4:30:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit Sports Mom's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Exactly!

If a person's opinion is expressed "ANONYMOUSLY" then is should not even be considered.

One definition of "anonymously" is lacking individuality, distinction, or recognizability

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bretland[/i]
[br]You mean versus sliding it through without anyone knowing about it?
Kind of like "good old boy politics".

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John Beagle
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Posted - 05/09/2008 :  4:34:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bretland[/i]
[br]You mean versus sliding it through without anyone knowing about it?
Kind of like "good old boy politics".


Perhaps that is Councilman Kelley's plan. Don't bring it up right before the meeting.


"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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Ursosju25
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Posted - 05/09/2008 :  4:35:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

This is a hot issue right now with people representing both sides. Now I am with standing from this debate because I do care but in my best interest I will withdraw from giving an opinion on this.

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Bob Kelley
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Posted - 05/09/2008 :  4:40:38 PM  Show Profile  Send Bob Kelley an AOL message  Send Bob Kelley a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Yep, that's exactly why I posted to it after it dropped off the page the first time.
quote:
Originally posted by John Beagle

quote:
Originally posted by Bretland

You mean versus sliding it through without anyone knowing about it?
Kind of like "good old boy politics".


Perhaps that is Councilman Kelley's plan. Don't bring it up right before the meeting.




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Sports Mom
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Posted - 05/09/2008 :  4:48:26 PM  Show Profile  Visit Sports Mom's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

OUCH!! I heard that SLAP all the way over on this side of Monroe!

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bob Kelley[/i]
[br]Yep, that's exactly why I posted to it after it dropped off the page the first time.
[quote]Originally posted by John Beagle


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Bretland
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Posted - 05/09/2008 :  5:13:49 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

sometimes you just gotta take a SLAP to do the right thing.

"There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary, and those that don't."
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Star_Rider
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Posted - 05/09/2008 :  5:15:44 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Man, I heard the slap all the way in Blue Ash...LOL

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John Beagle
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Posted - 05/09/2008 :  5:32:34 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bob Kelley[/i]
[br]Yep, that's exactly why I posted to it after it dropped off the page the first time.
quote:
Originally posted by John Beagle

quote:
Originally posted by Bretland

You mean versus sliding it through without anyone knowing about it?
Kind of like "good old boy politics".


Perhaps that is Councilman Kelley's plan. Don't bring it up right before the meeting.






Are you trying to stir things up?

"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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Star_Rider
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Posted - 05/09/2008 :  5:58:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Who Bob Kelley stir up the Sh!t?...Nahhh...LMAO

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Tracy
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Posted - 05/09/2008 :  6:11:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I would hope we could get more people to show up and see the business that goes on at council it is not like " the good old boys "

Nothing is hidden, and everything is posted before the meeting ( you can get an email alert with the agenda the Friday before the meetings) ( http://www.monroeohio.org/info/emailalerts.cfm ) The meeting minutes are posted on the web site.

Sometimes if you beat the same old drum, people will think it is music and others will know it is just someone beating on a drum. Show up and see for your self.

TRACY
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scooter
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Posted - 05/09/2008 :  7:02:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Can we approve the concession stand for youth baseball season also ? Are alcoholic beverages permitted in the park at all ? What about dogs on leashes ? And what is that funny smell I keep smelling by the frisbee golf course ? Maybe its laughing gas, cause the players are always laughing...

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Instigator
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Posted - 05/09/2008 :  8:46:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

DECLARING AN EMERGENCY SO THE CITY OF MONROE CAN PROVIDE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES AT THE MUNICIPAL PARK DURING SOCCER, BASEBALL AND BOB KELLY'S STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS. THIS IS SUBJECT TO APPROVAL BY THE MAYOR.

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Bob Kelley
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Posted - 05/09/2008 :  11:28:20 PM  Show Profile  Send Bob Kelley an AOL message  Send Bob Kelley a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
Originally posted by Star_Rider

Who Bob Kelley stir up the Sh!t?...Nahhh...LMAO



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Doc
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Posted - 05/10/2008 :  08:39:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I just love how the top 3 out of 4 of the articles from the Middletown Journal have something to do with "drinking".
That's how you stick the ladle in the pot for someone to stir it with.
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Star_Rider
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Posted - 05/10/2008 :  09:11:54 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Try top 4 all about drinking.......LOL

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Dr. Fink[/i]
[br]I just love how the top 3 out of 4 of the articles from the Middletown Journal have something to do with "drinking".
That's how you stick the ladle in the pot for someone to stir it with.


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Bob Kelley
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Posted - 05/10/2008 :  09:58:37 AM  Show Profile  Send Bob Kelley an AOL message  Send Bob Kelley a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Here is what is being proposed

SECTION 1: Section 1064.02 of Chapter 1064 of the Codified Ordinances of the City of
Monroe is hereby supplemented to read as follows:
1064.02 GENERAL RULES.

The following general rules shall apply to all users of the Municipal Park facilities:

(a) No alcoholic beverages shall be permitted in the park. The sale or furnishing of
alcoholic beverages during a special event shall be permitted only with the approval
of Council. Said requests must be submitted to the Park and Recreation Board who
shall make a recommendation to City Council. Special event shall be defined as the
temporary use, with a valid permit, of public property, including streets, sidewalks,
parks, and community centers for the purposes of condition certain short-term events
such as art shows, music concerts, fund-raising events, sidewalk sales, amusements,
attractions, circuses, carnivals, sporting events, including, but not limited to,
walkathons, marathon runs, exhibitions or related activities. Special events shall
include parades and festivals. A special event includes events with an anticipated
attendance in excess of 500. Approval of Council shall subject the applicant to the
following conditions

(i) A license to sell alcoholic beverages is obtained from the Ohio Division of
Liquor Control

(ii) The sale or furnishing and consumption of alcoholic beverages is confined to
a specific, predetermined location approved by the City Council, upon
recommendation of the Park and Recreation Board. Such a predetermined
location, such as a beer garden or wine garden, which is segregated from the
other event activities by means of fixed or portable barricades, walls, ropes, or
other devices.

(iii) Beer or wine is not sold or furnished in metal or glass containers; however,
even souvenir containers of metal or glass may be approved if the applicant
demonstrates that their use will not constitute a safety hazard.

(iv) The sale or furnishing of alcoholic beverages can be accomplished without
jeopardizing the safety of event sponsors, event participants, and the
surrounding community.

(v) The event organizer shall be responsible for checking the identification of all
persons being served alcohol and for ensuring all persons acting as servers are
over the age of 21. It is also the volunteer servers responsibility to make sure
that intoxicated persons are not served. A detailed plan for the sale of
alcoholic beverages, including id methods, security, etc., must be submitted
for Councils review. In addition, a description of the training the servers will
receive must be submitted. Included in this session should be an overview of
the liquor laws and the individuals liability in enforcing them.

(vi) You will be required to hold Liquor Liability Insurance ($1,000,000 per
incident) and name the City of Monroe as an additional insured. A copy of
your liquor permit and liquor liability insurance must be on file with the City
Managers office 10 days prior to your event.

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Bob Kelley
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Posted - 05/10/2008 :  10:03:57 AM  Show Profile  Send Bob Kelley an AOL message  Send Bob Kelley a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I think those are all aimed at prom/graduation season. It's a fair effort to try to educate people and hopefully keep some of our kids from making bad choices that can lead to a tragedy.
quote:
Originally posted by Star_Rider

Try top 4 all about drinking.......LOL

quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Fink

I just love how the top 3 out of 4 of the articles from the Middletown Journal have something to do with "drinking".
That's how you stick the ladle in the pot for someone to stir it with.




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buck35
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Posted - 05/10/2008 :  10:08:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

The ladies from Old Street Saloon have a special song for the occasion.


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Bretland
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Posted - 05/11/2008 :  12:37:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I think the newspaper articles are a good idea but I don't think selling alcohol at the park is in the best interest of the community.

I "beat the drum" because my son was in an accident with another driver that was under the influence of alcohol. The accident totaled his car. Fortunately, for him, he only had some pieces of glass in his face and his girlfriend had a slight shoulder injury that required some physical therapy.

I just hope that someone less fortunate than us does not have to stand up in front of Council in the future and discuss what happened to their child or a family member after a Monroe community event with alcohol.

This ordinance is not a good idea (my opinion). It does not add to the quality of the event, it does not make Monroe a better place. It only generates dollars.

It's too bad the businesses and the community can't be better supporters.

Bob

"There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary, and those that don't."
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Doc
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Posted - 05/11/2008 :  2:21:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Bob,

I completely understand your point of view. The decision of whether or not to have beer sales has been weighing heavily on me, as of late, and I cannot say that I can guarantee that we will be "incident free" during the festival...but I don't think it will be because we are selling someone 3 beers.

There is very little we can do to fight human nature. This was evident at last year's festival. I saw my fair sure of folks who had over-indulged and were going back and forth to their cars to continue their indulging. I'm sure we'll see some of the same this year - but hopefully with what we're putting in place - a much smaller scale.

So...What's the difference this year? Additional security, heightened sensitivity to those who appear impaired, a safe and secure area away from the "family focused" events where the police can keep a closer watch, no outside beverages to be brought into the park, and limited parking at the park to make it harder for those folks who can't limit themselves to get to their beverages in their cars.

Will this be "incident free"? I hope so, but possibly not. Are we doing everything we can possibly do to make sure everyone is safe? Absolutely! In the final analysis - after weighing the pros and cons of beer sales; I truly do believe that we will have a safer event by controlling beverages in the park than what we had last year.

Anyone who really knows me knows that my first priority has always been my involvement in this community and the well being of those around me. I do not take my responsibilities lightly when it comes to the safety and security of my friends, family, and the people of Monroe.

If I thought, for one minute, that we are creating more harm to this community than good; I'd work to remove beer sales from our festival. What we can give back to this community and how we can leave the ledger for next year's committee - combined with the safety measures in-place; assures me that this is the and most prudent best option.
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Tracy
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Posted - 05/11/2008 :  7:00:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bretland[/i]
[br]I think the newspaper articles are a good idea but I don't think selling alcohol at the park is in the best interest of the community.

I "beat the drum" because my son was in an accident with another driver that was under the influence of alcohol. The accident totaled his car. Fortunately, for him, he only had some pieces of glass in his face and his girlfriend had a slight shoulder injury that required some physical therapy.

I just hope that someone less fortunate than us does not have to stand up in front of Council in the future and discuss what happened to their child or a family member after a Monroe community event with alcohol.

This ordinance is not a good idea (my opinion). It does not add to the quality of the event, it does not make Monroe a better place. It only generates dollars.

It's too bad the businesses and the community can't be better supporters.

Bob



First. I am glad that your son was not permanently hurt by the irresponsible actions of someone else.

The point I was referring too was
"You mean versus sliding it through without anyone knowing about it?
Kind of like "good old boy politics"."

Too many time I have heard of the Good old Boy politics, Monroe is just over 11k people today and the village used to be around 5k that means they are more NEW residents then "Good old boys". Times are changing and if any one wants to know what is going on at the meetings, please come join in, you will be welcome.

TRACY
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Bretland
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Posted - 05/12/2008 :  12:15:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Tracy,
By "good old boy politics" I meant that it doesn't matter if people come to the Council meetings or not.
This particular issue has been pre-determined and it was even stated on the Voice by a Council member that it "will happen".
My point was that if concerned citizens (like me)come to the Council meeting their efforts will be for naught as this issue has already been discussed and an agreement reached by a majority of Council members prior to any vote or discussion.

Am I right?

Bob B

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Ursosju25
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Posted - 05/12/2008 :  12:21:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bretland[/i]
[br]Tracy,
By "good old boy politics" I meant that it doesn't matter if people come to the Council meetings or not.
This particular issue has been pre-determined and it was even stated on the Voice by a Council member that it "will happen".
My point was that if concerned citizens (like me)come to the Council meeting their efforts will be for naught as this issue has already been discussed and an agreement reached by a majority of Council members prior to any vote or discussion.

Am I right?

Bob B



I am neutral on this but let me say this. With the Coke Plant we had our voices heard but council had their minds made up before hand. The point is we had our voices heard and that should matter. No offense to the current council but they should respect and LISTEN to those people that are concerned. Do not have a pre determination but take everything into consideration and make an informed decision. I ask you as council members to listen not ignore those that show concern tommorow. Thank You!
Bret let your voice be heard!

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Star_Rider
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Posted - 05/12/2008 :  12:34:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

DARN IT!, Same night as the High School Band concert/awards night, I can't make it.

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buck35
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buckeyenut
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Posted - 05/12/2008 :  12:54:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Bretland, I understand your concerns but what is the alternative to beer sales? We need to raise money for the event to continue year after year. As Treasurer, you should know it's not easy to keep banging on doors asking for handouts. We're desperatly trying to raise money to keep the event as free as possible AND give back to the community.



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Bretland
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Posted - 05/12/2008 :  1:26:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I hate to get started on this- but here goes:

First of all, why do you have to give back to the community? I realize that it helps justify the sales, but there's really no requirement or obligation to help out local non-profit organizatons. Let those organizations work for their money by having a booth or activity. You're providing the venue, allow them to take advantage of it.
Second, a number of successful festivals and celebrations take place without alcohol. I grew up in Troy , OH and I don't recall their Strawberry festival having beer sales. And that's a huge event that's been going on for over 20 years. The key is support of local businesses, civic groups and citizens. It takes a lot of work (every year) to coordinate and raise the funds necessary to run the event. But they do it.

As Treasurer, I do know how tough it was to raise money. We had to do almost everything on the skinny. But you know what, the event last year came out OK (at least that's what most people in attendance told us). And we keep it small and simple.

In my opinion, beer is the easy way out. It will generate revenue and it will guarantee a certain level of attendance. And those are good things. I just wouldn't sell beer (and I wouldn't do 2 days)if it was up to me. And, it's not up to me.

Bob B

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Ursosju25
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Posted - 05/12/2008 :  1:37:11 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

In all interntions I think this council will listen to those concerned. I know from past experiences that they WILL LISTEN and make the correct decision. This council I feel will listen as opposed to those folks on council to our north.

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sportsnut
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Posted - 05/12/2008 :  2:03:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Dr. Fink[/i]
[br]Bob,

I completely understand your point of view. The decision of whether or not to have beer sales has been weighing heavily on me, as of late, and I cannot say that I can guarantee that we will be "incident free" during the festival...but I don't think it will be because we are selling someone 3 beers.

There is very little we can do to fight human nature. This was evident at last year's festival. I saw my fair sure of folks who had over-indulged and were going back and forth to their cars to continue their indulging. I'm sure we'll see some of the same this year - but hopefully with what we're putting in place - a much smaller scale.

So...What's the difference this year? Additional security, heightened sensitivity to those who appear impaired, a safe and secure area away from the "family focused" events where the police can keep a closer watch, no outside beverages to be brought into the park, and limited parking at the park to make it harder for those folks who can't limit themselves to get to their beverages in their cars.

Will this be "incident free"? I hope so, but possibly not. Are we doing everything we can possibly do to make sure everyone is safe? Absolutely! In the final analysis - after weighing the pros and cons of beer sales; I truly do believe that we will have a safer event by controlling beverages in the park than what we had last year.

Anyone who really knows me knows that my first priority has always been my involvement in this community and the well being of those around me. I do not take my responsibilities lightly when it comes to the safety and security of my friends, family, and the people of Monroe.

If I thought, for one minute, that we are creating more harm to this community than good; I'd work to remove beer sales from our festival. What we can give back to this community and how we can leave the ledger for next year's committee - combined with the safety measures in-place; assures me that this is the and most prudent best option.



I see no real reason to have beer sales at this event and have expressed that. In fact, I had this conversation at last years event with a council member and expressed to him/her how nice it was to not have had it during the event(you can see how far that comment got me).

I would like to commend you on this point though Steve:

You have taken this very seriousely and do not "seem" to be making this decision based on finances. If you are sincere in your reasoning I can somewhat understand it(not necessarily like it, but understand it).

Why must it be both days though? Can't there be a compromise for the people wanting to keep the very family friendly atmosphere that was prevelant at last years event for one of the days? I am not able to participate in any weekly meetings(council or festival) because of extensive travel, therefore my voice cannot be heard other than The Voice, but please consider only one day.

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loaner288
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Posted - 05/12/2008 :  2:25:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

After expenses, including licensing, purchasing the beer and ice, security and all, how much profit do you expect to make from the beer sales? Has anyone calculated this?
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Bob Kelley
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Posted - 05/12/2008 :  2:27:10 PM  Show Profile  Send Bob Kelley an AOL message  Send Bob Kelley a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

The voice is no place to have your opinion counted, an email to council@monroeohio.org will however have your opinion counted.

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sportsnut
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Posted - 05/12/2008 :  2:46:00 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bob Kelley[/i]
[br]The voice is no place to have your opinion counted, an email to council@monroeohio.org will however have your opinion counted.



Is that in addition to or instead of speaking face to face with someone(council member) at last years event.
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Bob Kelley
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Posted - 05/12/2008 :  3:19:23 PM  Show Profile  Send Bob Kelley an AOL message  Send Bob Kelley a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

That was then this is now....LOL

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Sports Mom
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Posted - 05/12/2008 :  4:00:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit Sports Mom's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I am for the sale of alcohol at this year's 4th Event for various reasons. The restrictions set forth will be limiting serving sizes, confining alcohol consumption to a beer garden and more importantly, limiting the number of 3 per day per customer.

I think it can still be a family-styled event even with a beer garden. There are a lot of other festivals (mostly Catholic churches) that serve alcohol. We have taken our kids to Reds & Bengals games, Kings Island, bowling alleys and even Chuck E Cheese were alcohol is served and don't recall any issues.

JMO





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Bretland
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Posted - 05/12/2008 :  4:45:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Just one way around the 3 limit.

Suppose a man goes with his wife. Suppose the wife drinks one beer. She's still allowed to get 2 more which she could then give to him after he's over the limit of three. It could be so crowded that no one would see what she was doing. She's just buying her allowed allotment.

There's always a way around security and rules. And, some people will figure it out. I think they've done a great job of planning for this and their diligence should help reduce most instances of abuse.

I suspect the ordinance will be approved. I will take Bob's suggestion to put my concerns in writing to the Council. At least it will be part of the record.

"There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary, and those that don't."
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Sports Mom
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Posted - 05/12/2008 :  4:54:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit Sports Mom's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Good point Bob... If they are caught, they would be immediately asked to leave the premises and I would hope that if she allowed him to drink more than 3, she would also be the one to drive him home.

Maybe a way to fix that is to either put a black X over each UV stamp or to punch a hole in their wristband every time they purchase a beer.

I know there will be people looking for ways to break the rules and this happened last year while citizens were going back and forth to their cards to refill their adult beverages.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bretland[/i]
[br]Just one way around the 3 limit.

Suppose a man goes with his wife. Suppose the wife drinks one beer. She's still allowed to get 2 more which she could then give to him after he's over the limit of three. It could be so crowded that no one would see what she was doing. She's just buying her allowed allotment.


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