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Bretland
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Posted - 03/10/2011 :  09:27:37 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Prada,

Hickman has a right to an opinion - just like you do.
There are some of us that will work for his re-election as well.

"There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary, and those that don't."
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Bretland
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Posted - 03/10/2011 :  09:36:20 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

ThinkTank,

Moving may be an option, but no one really knows the exact impact of Suncoke plant on the community.
There may be 90% of the City that sees no impact from the plant. There may be 90% that does see an impact. No one knows.

The City and Suncoke Watch have failed in their attempts to keep the plant from being built. It's built.
Can those groups get it from going operational? I doubt it...

So, all there will be left is monitoring or perhaps a large cash payment by Suncoke to the City or those homes impacted by the plant. That's not guaranteed and may never happen (tied up in court).

Anyway, you can move away or you can stay. I plan on sticking it out and hoping for the best. Suncoke doesn't make Monroe less of a City. There will still be great people here. We'll just have to see how it all plays out and deal with it.

"There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary, and those that don't."
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cmsquare
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Posted - 03/10/2011 :  09:43:32 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bretland[/i]
[br]Suncoke doesn't make Monroe less of a City. There will still be great people here. We'll just have to see how it all plays out and deal with it.



Sure great people, with less air quality and increased health risks.

Sounds like a great place to live.

If you don't think that plant impacts people's views on Monroe drive through the area surrounding the plant and see how many homes have been sold in the last year. I've seen many of the same houses with signs out front for a long time.

and when the 10% of the town that gets effected ups and leaves, or has their home values drop significantly like has already begin to happen, well you had best believe it's going to impact the other 90%.
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John Beagle
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Posted - 03/10/2011 :  10:47:58 AM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

"The City and Suncoke Watch have failed in their attempts to keep the plant from being built. It's built." - Bob Bretland

SunCoke Watch Failed Us due to a lack of conviction. What ever happened to that group? Seems that there is no activity from the group at all. It's almost as if they already succeeded in getting Monroe to spend millions on their initiative.

Even with all that money spent on the group, did we hear thanks Monroe for spending your tax money? I haven't heard one. I've heard them thank council as if it was their money to spend. But no thanks to the Monroe community. At least they could say that on their website.


quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bretland[/i]
[br]ThinkTank,

Moving may be an option, but no one really knows the exact impact of Suncoke plant on the community.
There may be 90% of the City that sees no impact from the plant. There may be 90% that does see an impact. No one knows.

The City and Suncoke Watch have failed in their attempts to keep the plant from being built. It's built.
Can those groups get it from going operational? I doubt it...

So, all there will be left is monitoring or perhaps a large cash payment by Suncoke to the City or those homes impacted by the plant. That's not guaranteed and may never happen (tied up in court).

Anyway, you can move away or you can stay. I plan on sticking it out and hoping for the best. Suncoke doesn't make Monroe less of a City. There will still be great people here. We'll just have to see how it all plays out and deal with it.


"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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sportsnut
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Posted - 03/10/2011 :  11:54:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bob Kelley[/i]


If the majority of Council didn't think it could be won, it would have been stopped a long time ago, if it ever got started. Each set of circumstances in this case bring a whole new set of decisions and paths to chose from. Mr. Hickman has chosen a path that he will have to defend if he is incorrect and the remainder have chosen likewise. All of us believe we are doing the right thing.





This is the part that sticks with me. Our council comes from different walks of life, different party affiliations, and different ways of communicating with the people. The fact that this group of people have continuously felt very strong about continuing this fight leads me to believe there is something that we do not know about that gives them a reason to fight. Even the newest member of council got up to speed quickly and saw a reason to continue this fight.

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No money
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Posted - 03/10/2011 :  11:57:53 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

They are some real wackos if they think they can win an appeal, history of this has shown they won't win.
I think they just love to blow money,,,,like OBAMA!!!!!
Remember fiscal emergency!!!!!
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HornetPride
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Posted - 03/10/2011 :  12:05:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I think they are all liberals except one. Least they act that way, they know how to spend our money better than we do. If you put it to a vote we wouldn't have a lawsuit in the first place. The new guy was selected by the majority of those in power and then he votes with council. Hard to believe, isn't it.


quote:
[i]Originally posted by sportsnut[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bob Kelley[/i]


If the majority of Council didn't think it could be won, it would have been stopped a long time ago, if it ever got started. Each set of circumstances in this case bring a whole new set of decisions and paths to chose from. Mr. Hickman has chosen a path that he will have to defend if he is incorrect and the remainder have chosen likewise. All of us believe we are doing the right thing.





This is the part that sticks with me. Our council comes from different walks of life, different party affiliations, and different ways of communicating with the people. The fact that this group of people have continuously felt very strong about continuing this fight leads me to believe there is something that we do not know about that gives them a reason to fight. Even the newest member of council got up to speed quickly and saw a reason to continue this fight.



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HornetPride
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Posted - 03/10/2011 :  12:10:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I saw it coming, kept asking where they get all that money for all these new buildings? Someone said the fed said we were now a city so we got money for that. It was a lie. We didn't get money from the fed govmnt to build city hall and two new fire stations. After they got built, we went into financial emergency and fired our city manager. They fired the guy because council needed a scape goat. They ran poor old Don out of the city and blamed the whole mess on him. I won't say his last name because he was totaly disgraced.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by No money[/i]
[br]They are some real wackos if they think they can win an appeal, history of this has shown they won't win.
I think they just love to blow money,,,,like OBAMA!!!!!
Remember fiscal emergency!!!!!

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cmsquare
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Posted - 03/10/2011 :  1:25:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by HornetPride[/i]
[br] If you put it to a vote we wouldn't have a lawsuit in the first place.



I'm wondering where you got that data. Did you poll the whole town? Seems like a pretty bold statement to me. From what I can tell support for and against the lawsuit is split pretty evenly amongst posters here.

and if you did poll the whole town, how were the questions phrased? I'm sure they were unbiased and not leading at all.



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Prada
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Posted - 03/10/2011 :  1:29:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bretland[/i]
[br]Prada,

Hickman has a right to an opinion - just like you do.
There are some of us that will work for his re-election as well.



Yes he does and i got to see that opinion for several years on the voice. It ought to be a fun fight,
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Doc
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Posted - 03/10/2011 :  1:29:33 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by HornetPride[/i]
[br]I think they are all liberals except one. Least they act that way, they know how to spend our money better than we do. If you put it to a vote we wouldn't have a lawsuit in the first place. The new guy was selected by the majority of those in power and then he votes with council. Hard to believe, isn't it.
Wrong and exceptionally insulting. I voted based on what I personally believe is in the city's best interest.

Even though I have never had dinner with Mr. Beagle, I am more a bit more conservative than you'd believe. Ask Suzi or ask Bob if I'm a bleeding-heart, hippy, liberal - they would have some knowledge.

I would invite you to run for council, get elected, sign the nondisclosure agreement, and then read the documents. You'll either (a) change your opinion on the path forward based on legal FACTS or (b) go with your preconceived notion and ignore what you read...either way - you wouldn't wave my voting off as "voting with council".

I personally don't care how the rest of council votes. I'm casting mine after a lot of soul-searching and gray hair growing.
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Prada
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Posted - 03/10/2011 :  1:41:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

IS Bob now the expert? Wish this was in his backyard. He and Instigator could have BBQ's together.

You have no idea what is going on with the Suncoke Watch and it is probably a good thing. There is a lot of good work occuring and money being spent directly by those that care about fighting Suncoke (maybe the 10%). As the councilmen have stated there is a lot they can not share, I would say the same for the Suncoke Watch, except maybe it is best if we dont want to share.

This pollution will effect a lot more than 10% in this community.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by John Beagle[/i]
[br]"The City and Suncoke Watch have failed in their attempts to keep the plant from being built. It's built." - Bob Bretland

SunCoke Watch Failed Us due to a lack of conviction. What ever happened to that group? Seems that there is no activity from the group at all. It's almost as if they already succeeded in getting Monroe to spend millions on their initiative.

Even with all that money spent on the group, did we hear thanks Monroe for spending your tax money? I haven't heard one. I've heard them thank council as if it was their money to spend. But no thanks to the Monroe community. At least they could say that on their website.


quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bretland[/i]
[br]ThinkTank,

Moving may be an option, but no one really knows the exact impact of Suncoke plant on the community.
There may be 90% of the City that sees no impact from the plant. There may be 90% that does see an impact. No one knows.

The City and Suncoke Watch have failed in their attempts to keep the plant from being built. It's built.
Can those groups get it from going operational? I doubt it...

So, all there will be left is monitoring or perhaps a large cash payment by Suncoke to the City or those homes impacted by the plant. That's not guaranteed and may never happen (tied up in court).

Anyway, you can move away or you can stay. I plan on sticking it out and hoping for the best. Suncoke doesn't make Monroe less of a City. There will still be great people here. We'll just have to see how it all plays out and deal with it.



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John Beagle
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Posted - 03/10/2011 :  2:01:08 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I don't know how anyone gets things done by keeping what they are doing a secret.

Everything is a fricken secret. We can't say we are in a lawsuit...its a secret. We can't tell you what our group is planning to do with your tax dollars...its a secret.

There must be some big secret surprise coming because council is mostly convinced that we should continue with this spending.

I don't want the pollution either and feel bad about your situation. It sucks. But so do allot of things. Maybe it won't be as bad as you think. Either way, I'm not convinced that we are doing the right thing for everyone in Monroe. You have to admit, with the past ruling and all the information we have to go on, it's an unlikely win.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Prada[/i]
[br]IS Bob now the expert? Wish this was in his backyard. He and Instigator could have BBQ's together.

You have no idea what is going on with the Suncoke Watch and it is probably a good thing. There is a lot of good work occuring and money being spent directly by those that care about fighting Suncoke (maybe the 10%). As the councilmen have stated there is a lot they can not share, I would say the same for the Suncoke Watch, except maybe it is best if we dont want to share.

This pollution will effect a lot more than 10% in this community.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by John Beagle[/i]
[br]"The City and Suncoke Watch have failed in their attempts to keep the plant from being built. It's built." - Bob Bretland

SunCoke Watch Failed Us due to a lack of conviction. What ever happened to that group? Seems that there is no activity from the group at all. It's almost as if they already succeeded in getting Monroe to spend millions on their initiative.

Even with all that money spent on the group, did we hear thanks Monroe for spending your tax money? I haven't heard one. I've heard them thank council as if it was their money to spend. But no thanks to the Monroe community. At least they could say that on their website.


quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bretland[/i]
[br]ThinkTank,

Moving may be an option, but no one really knows the exact impact of Suncoke plant on the community.
There may be 90% of the City that sees no impact from the plant. There may be 90% that does see an impact. No one knows.

The City and Suncoke Watch have failed in their attempts to keep the plant from being built. It's built.
Can those groups get it from going operational? I doubt it...

So, all there will be left is monitoring or perhaps a large cash payment by Suncoke to the City or those homes impacted by the plant. That's not guaranteed and may never happen (tied up in court).

Anyway, you can move away or you can stay. I plan on sticking it out and hoping for the best. Suncoke doesn't make Monroe less of a City. There will still be great people here. We'll just have to see how it all plays out and deal with it.






"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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Bretland
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Posted - 03/10/2011 :  2:06:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

"Is Bob now the expert?"

NOPE. Just a concerned citizen that's going to work through whatever happens. What are you going to do - leave town or just talk about it???

"This pollution will effect a lot more than 10% in this community."

You don't know that. I said it could also affect 90%. You only comprehend half of what I wrote??

"There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary, and those that don't."
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Prada
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Posted - 03/10/2011 :  2:23:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I am writing checks and attending meetings, and trying to keep the pressure on Suncoke and our elected officials.
What are you doing Bob?
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Prada
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Posted - 03/10/2011 :  2:28:42 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Just because you or the voice are not kept in the loop, doesn't mean it is a secret. Not sharing with you or the voice might be perceived as a waste of energy. It is hard to say anything on this forum without being bombarded with harsh words and comments that are used on this forum.

We have been labeled (just today) liberals, extremists, small group - just move or hold your breath.


quote:
[i]Originally posted by John Beagle[/i]
[br]I don't know how anyone gets things done by keeping what they are doing a secret.

Everything is a fricken secret. We can't say we are in a lawsuit...its a secret. We can't tell you what our group is planning to do with your tax dollars...its a secret.

There must be some big secret surprise coming because council is mostly convinced that we should continue with this spending.

I don't want the pollution either and feel bad about your situation. It sucks. But so do allot of things. Maybe it won't be as bad as you think. Either way, I'm not convinced that we are doing the right thing for everyone in Monroe. You have to admit, with the past ruling and all the information we have to go on, it's an unlikely win.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Prada[/i]
[br]IS Bob now the expert? Wish this was in his backyard. He and Instigator could have BBQ's together.

You have no idea what is going on with the Suncoke Watch and it is probably a good thing. There is a lot of good work occuring and money being spent directly by those that care about fighting Suncoke (maybe the 10%). As the councilmen have stated there is a lot they can not share, I would say the same for the Suncoke Watch, except maybe it is best if we dont want to share.

This pollution will effect a lot more than 10% in this community.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by John Beagle[/i]
[br]"The City and Suncoke Watch have failed in their attempts to keep the plant from being built. It's built." - Bob Bretland

SunCoke Watch Failed Us due to a lack of conviction. What ever happened to that group? Seems that there is no activity from the group at all. It's almost as if they already succeeded in getting Monroe to spend millions on their initiative.

Even with all that money spent on the group, did we hear thanks Monroe for spending your tax money? I haven't heard one. I've heard them thank council as if it was their money to spend. But no thanks to the Monroe community. At least they could say that on their website.


quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bretland[/i]
[br]ThinkTank,

Moving may be an option, but no one really knows the exact impact of Suncoke plant on the community.
There may be 90% of the City that sees no impact from the plant. There may be 90% that does see an impact. No one knows.

The City and Suncoke Watch have failed in their attempts to keep the plant from being built. It's built.
Can those groups get it from going operational? I doubt it...

So, all there will be left is monitoring or perhaps a large cash payment by Suncoke to the City or those homes impacted by the plant. That's not guaranteed and may never happen (tied up in court).

Anyway, you can move away or you can stay. I plan on sticking it out and hoping for the best. Suncoke doesn't make Monroe less of a City. There will still be great people here. We'll just have to see how it all plays out and deal with it.







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John Beagle
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Posted - 03/10/2011 :  2:36:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I've been labeled allot worse, right Bob. lol

I think there are just as many sympathetic voices on here as those who don't. If you have a compelling argument, you might win over more people.

How do you raise funds? I don't see anything on your website. I bet if you asked, some of the people on here might donate to your cause.

You might not believe this but I really really want us to win. Until I have more information, my definition of winning isn't quite the same as yours. That doesn't make me the bad guy. Neither does it make you the bad guy. There ain't no bad guy. Just people with different information and or interpretation of the info.

I wish you well and I do feel bad for your situation.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Prada[/i]
[br]Just because you or the voice are not kept in the loop, doesn't mean it is a secret. Not sharing with you or the voice might be perceived as a waste of energy. It is hard to say anything on this forum without being bombarded with harsh words and comments that are used on this forum.

We have been labeled (just today) liberals, extremists, small group - just move or hold your breath.


quote:
[i]Originally posted by John Beagle[/i]
[br]I don't know how anyone gets things done by keeping what they are doing a secret.

Everything is a fricken secret. We can't say we are in a lawsuit...its a secret. We can't tell you what our group is planning to do with your tax dollars...its a secret.

There must be some big secret surprise coming because council is mostly convinced that we should continue with this spending.

I don't want the pollution either and feel bad about your situation. It sucks. But so do allot of things. Maybe it won't be as bad as you think. Either way, I'm not convinced that we are doing the right thing for everyone in Monroe. You have to admit, with the past ruling and all the information we have to go on, it's an unlikely win.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Prada[/i]
[br]IS Bob now the expert? Wish this was in his backyard. He and Instigator could have BBQ's together.

You have no idea what is going on with the Suncoke Watch and it is probably a good thing. There is a lot of good work occuring and money being spent directly by those that care about fighting Suncoke (maybe the 10%). As the councilmen have stated there is a lot they can not share, I would say the same for the Suncoke Watch, except maybe it is best if we dont want to share.

This pollution will effect a lot more than 10% in this community.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by John Beagle[/i]
[br]"The City and Suncoke Watch have failed in their attempts to keep the plant from being built. It's built." - Bob Bretland

SunCoke Watch Failed Us due to a lack of conviction. What ever happened to that group? Seems that there is no activity from the group at all. It's almost as if they already succeeded in getting Monroe to spend millions on their initiative.

Even with all that money spent on the group, did we hear thanks Monroe for spending your tax money? I haven't heard one. I've heard them thank council as if it was their money to spend. But no thanks to the Monroe community. At least they could say that on their website.


quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bretland[/i]
[br]ThinkTank,

Moving may be an option, but no one really knows the exact impact of Suncoke plant on the community.
There may be 90% of the City that sees no impact from the plant. There may be 90% that does see an impact. No one knows.

The City and Suncoke Watch have failed in their attempts to keep the plant from being built. It's built.
Can those groups get it from going operational? I doubt it...

So, all there will be left is monitoring or perhaps a large cash payment by Suncoke to the City or those homes impacted by the plant. That's not guaranteed and may never happen (tied up in court).

Anyway, you can move away or you can stay. I plan on sticking it out and hoping for the best. Suncoke doesn't make Monroe less of a City. There will still be great people here. We'll just have to see how it all plays out and deal with it.










"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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Prada
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Posted - 03/10/2011 :  2:44:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

You said a lot right there: "your situation". Don't you live in Monroe? Did you move? We are all in this situation!

I and I am sure those that support NOT having Suncoke in the backyard of Monroe, appreciate the sympathetic voices. (I wish you were more vocal for our work vs being so negative). We should support our council and if you are interested in supporting in voice or dollars, contact me or anyone on the Suncoke Watch.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by John Beagle[/i]
[br]I've been labeled allot worse, right Bob. lol

I think there are just as many sympathetic voices on here as those who don't. If you have a compelling argument, you might win over more people.

How do you raise funds? I don't see anything on your website. I bet if you asked, some of the people on here might donate to your cause.

You might not believe this but I really really want us to win. Until I have more information, my definition of winning isn't quite the same as yours. That doesn't make me the bad guy. Neither does it make you the bad guy. There ain't no bad guy. Just people with different information and or interpretation of the info.

I wish you well and I do feel bad for your situation.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Prada[/i]
[br]Just because you or the voice are not kept in the loop, doesn't mean it is a secret. Not sharing with you or the voice might be perceived as a waste of energy. It is hard to say anything on this forum without being bombarded with harsh words and comments that are used on this forum.

We have been labeled (just today) liberals, extremists, small group - just move or hold your breath.


quote:
[i]Originally posted by John Beagle[/i]
[br]I don't know how anyone gets things done by keeping what they are doing a secret.

Everything is a fricken secret. We can't say we are in a lawsuit...its a secret. We can't tell you what our group is planning to do with your tax dollars...its a secret.

There must be some big secret surprise coming because council is mostly convinced that we should continue with this spending.

I don't want the pollution either and feel bad about your situation. It sucks. But so do allot of things. Maybe it won't be as bad as you think. Either way, I'm not convinced that we are doing the right thing for everyone in Monroe. You have to admit, with the past ruling and all the information we have to go on, it's an unlikely win.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Prada[/i]
[br]IS Bob now the expert? Wish this was in his backyard. He and Instigator could have BBQ's together.

You have no idea what is going on with the Suncoke Watch and it is probably a good thing. There is a lot of good work occuring and money being spent directly by those that care about fighting Suncoke (maybe the 10%). As the councilmen have stated there is a lot they can not share, I would say the same for the Suncoke Watch, except maybe it is best if we dont want to share.

This pollution will effect a lot more than 10% in this community.

quote:
[i]Originally posted by John Beagle[/i]
[br]"The City and Suncoke Watch have failed in their attempts to keep the plant from being built. It's built." - Bob Bretland

SunCoke Watch Failed Us due to a lack of conviction. What ever happened to that group? Seems that there is no activity from the group at all. It's almost as if they already succeeded in getting Monroe to spend millions on their initiative.

Even with all that money spent on the group, did we hear thanks Monroe for spending your tax money? I haven't heard one. I've heard them thank council as if it was their money to spend. But no thanks to the Monroe community. At least they could say that on their website.


quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bretland[/i]
[br]ThinkTank,

Moving may be an option, but no one really knows the exact impact of Suncoke plant on the community.
There may be 90% of the City that sees no impact from the plant. There may be 90% that does see an impact. No one knows.

The City and Suncoke Watch have failed in their attempts to keep the plant from being built. It's built.
Can those groups get it from going operational? I doubt it...

So, all there will be left is monitoring or perhaps a large cash payment by Suncoke to the City or those homes impacted by the plant. That's not guaranteed and may never happen (tied up in court).

Anyway, you can move away or you can stay. I plan on sticking it out and hoping for the best. Suncoke doesn't make Monroe less of a City. There will still be great people here. We'll just have to see how it all plays out and deal with it.











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John Beagle
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Posted - 03/10/2011 :  3:01:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Prada, I believe this forum is as much for your cause as it is for those who oppose it. Additionally, I made videos of all your presenters to Monroe Council. Including your husband. I will publish any information you want on this forum and on the Home page if necessary. By the way, I thought Mark did a good job presenting your point of view.




"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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Bretland
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Posted - 03/10/2011 :  3:07:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

"What are you doing Bob?"

Basically letting my elected officials handle it. I tried for the open Council seat but was not selected. I may run for Council in November but I doubt it. Tried that once before............................

Snipe at me all you want if it makes you feel better. We'll see how this all turns out. Believe me, I hope the Suncoke plant disappears overnight or the City prevails in their lawsuit or Suncoke remarkably decides they were wrong and decide to spend money building elsewhere.

The problem is: I think it's going to become operational in the near future and we're going to have to live with it..

"There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary, and those that don't."
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Dannyboy
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Posted - 03/10/2011 :  3:09:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

This is an old story, so maybe things have changed:

http://www.journal-news.com/news/hamilton-news/ohio-epa-files-motion-to-dismiss-suncoke-appeals-677136.html
quote:
In addition to these appeals, there are still three other outstanding appeals against SunCoke’s NSR permit which are scheduled to go before ERAC in January 2012. They include the city of Monroe, Lemon Twp. resident Robert Snook, and SunCoke Watch Inc. in conjunction with the Natural Resource Defense Council and Monroe residents Lisa Frye, Barb Stubbs and Chuck Inwood.

SunCoke began construction on the coke plant April 12. When completed, it will provide coke — a steelmaking raw material — and up to 50 megawatts of electricity to AK Steel for at least the next 20 years. Company officials said work could be done as soon as the third quarter of 2011. The plant, being built off Yankee Road near the Monroe border, is providing 500 temporary construction jobs and up to 83 permanent jobs once operational.

If the plant will be done in 2011 and the permit appeals won't be heard until 2012 (or later), isn't there a roughly 0.1% chance of the appeals being successful? The Environmental Review Appeals Commission and/or the Franklin County Court of Appeals is going to shut down a completed plant after years of permit approvals by OEPA? Really? Has that ever happened before?
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Doc
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Posted - 03/10/2011 :  3:24:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

I was just out having a LOVELY lunch and it dawned on me that I hadn't shared something. In my own personal deliberations about whether or not to support the various aspects of all of the legal actions taken by this council; I've had one fictional guy in my head and continuously wandered what HE'D think of all of this.

This guy is about 50 years old or so, owns a home somewhere in my neighborhood, married to his high school sweetheart, has a couple kids - one grown, one still in high school, works at AK and has all of his life. He's got a couple grand kids from his oldest and they live in Monroe too. He makes decent money, not great, but good enough to live in my hood and struggle through it like me and the rest of my neighbors. He's got a couple cars getting ready to bite the dust, his home value is nowhere near where he hoped, and his wife is working part time.

They don't get to take many vacations and when they do - it's usually to Myrtle Beach or down to Gatlinburg - but they're not real sure whether they can afford to this year because the cars' crap and gas prices are kinda high.

Now...keep in mind - he's in his 50's and the prospects of finding a different job if he HAD to is quickly starting to diminish. He knows that the idea of selling his house right now is out of the question. He also knows that his taxes are too high and the money he's making now doesn't even come close to stretching like it did 10 years ago.

This is the guy...and I've still chosen to vote the way I have.

I don't know if this means anything to anyone other than maybe I'm just deeply disturbed.
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ThinkTank
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Posted - 03/10/2011 :  6:06:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Bretland[/i]
[br]ThinkTank,

Moving may be an option, but no one really knows the exact impact of Suncoke plant on the community.
There may be 90% of the City that sees no impact from the plant. There may be 90% that does see an impact. No one knows.

The City and Suncoke Watch have failed in their attempts to keep the plant from being built. It's built.
Can those groups get it from going operational? I doubt it...

So, all there will be left is monitoring or perhaps a large cash payment by Suncoke to the City or those homes impacted by the plant. That's not guaranteed and may never happen (tied up in court).

Anyway, you can move away or you can stay. I plan on sticking it out and hoping for the best. Suncoke doesn't make Monroe less of a City. There will still be great people here. We'll just have to see how it all plays out and deal with it.



Yeah I guess you are generally right. For me though, for example, its like- I don't think living under those big power lines gives you cancer or anything, but I would still never buy a house under a set of them. So who knows how the City will be impacted, but it will bother me enough either way to think about moving. As I suspect a lot of people in the city feel the same way, it does not bother me that the council is fighting for... well whatever. To be honest I have not given this all that much attention until now, how much is it costing the city to fight this?

hello.
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Happy HarperValley Rez
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Posted - 03/11/2011 :  12:22:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Suncoke is not going away. I've actually talked to many of the guys who are here working to get it running. They are among the supervisors and plant planners/engineers at this location. Many have participated in the building and rehabbing of other facilities. They've shared the fact that their corporate lawyers, admins, etc have complied with all required EPA codes.
They gave an example of what has been happening: The city was fighting a license/permit (forgive me - I do not work for them-just trying to recall what I was told) so they simply reduced the amount of energy or watts (?) so they no longer needed the permit they were blocked from obtaining. They continued on business as usual.
Basically, they are able to work within the parameters to get around, over, under, etc - whatever the city spends to block, delay, etc.
That is why I feel this is a no-win situation.
On the flip side - for those concerned this is going to be another SUNCOKE nightmare town. It was explained to me that the city the WATCH keeps referring to DID have problems but technology has changed and they have learned from what doesn't work. This should be the GREEN-est Coke Plant to date. No expense is being spared when it comes to the production of their product - they want to be a good neighbor.
They also shared they have encountered some very opposing viewpoints to their employment/employer. They asked that everyone try to see it for what it is...This is their employer, their families back home depend on their paychecks from this job and they are PROUD of the work they do - they are truly doing everything they personally can to make this site the best Suncoke project they've ever worked on.
I told them my truth - my only opposition and disappointment came from the fact that it was virgin farmland that was being defaced for industry. BUT, the land was for sale and they bought it with no desire/malice to hurt the community or the townspeople...
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Doc
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Posted - 03/11/2011 :  12:37:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

HHVR. I'm NOT trying to start argument here but the "facts" that they are referring to are the "facts" as they have been told by their upper management. I don't blame them for repeating them but these cannot be classified as facts - merely hearsay.
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Happy HarperValley Rez
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Posted - 03/11/2011 :  12:51:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

And in all fairness Doc - you do not KNOW that it is hearsay on their part. They did not say that this was shared by upper management. They spoke from being involved in the planning meetings and solution groups. And if you had been there for the numerous conversations I have had with many of them - I would gladly accept your opinion on their qualifications to speak about what they know & what they have heard.
They are not the EVIL COKE PLANT - waaaaaa haaaaaaa haaaaaa that the WATCH would have us believe.
Not to start an argument either - but if I just say "ohhh OK" even though I KNOW YOU were NOT present - I would be accepting your "hearsay" since you only recently got involved with the inside scoop of Council.
AND finally, I believe when there is a lawsuit - there are 2 sides, equal and opposing which need a 3rd party to render a resolution. Monroe was recently told "NO" on the request to be reimbursed were they not? Just another uninformed judge?

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Doc[/i]
[br]HHVR. I'm NOT trying to start argument here but the "facts" that they are referring to are the "facts" as they have been told by their upper management. I don't blame them for repeating them but these cannot be classified as facts - merely hearsay.

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Doc
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Posted - 03/11/2011 :  1:06:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Happy HarperValley Rez[/i]
[br]And in all fairness Doc - you do not KNOW that it is hearsay on their part. They did not say that this was shared by upper management. They spoke from being involved in the planning meetings and solution groups. And if you had been there for the numerous conversations I have had with many of them - I would gladly accept your opinion on their qualifications to speak about what they know & what they have heard.
It is either hearsay or they are violating a court order. Let's just leave it at hearsay, k?
quote:
They are not the EVIL COKE PLANT - waaaaaa haaaaaaa haaaaaa that the WATCH would have us believe.
Whether they're evil or not doesn't concern me.
quote:
Not to start an argument either - but if I just say "ohhh OK" even though I KNOW YOU were NOT present - I would be accepting your "hearsay" since you only recently got involved with the inside scoop of Council.
Which actually works to my benefit. I haven't had the joy of being part of the heated discussions; I'm just left to read through the mounds of documents and form my own, unencumbered, opinion - free of the political wrangling B.S. and believe me when I tell you; I've read (and sometimes reread) every single document.

quote:
AND finally, I believe when there is a lawsuit - there are 2 sides, equal and opposing which need a 3rd party to render a resolution. Monroe was recently told "NO" on the request to be reimbursed were they not? Just another uninformed judge?
Possibly. That's why our founding fathers set up the judicial system with an extensive appeals process.
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Happy HarperValley Rez
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Posted - 03/11/2011 :  1:09:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

You just made me laugh out loud!!!
Thanks for bringing a chuckle to this obviously never ending ever spending appeals process...

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Doc[/i]
quote:
AND finally, I believe when there is a lawsuit - there are 2 sides, equal and opposing which need a 3rd party to render a resolution. Monroe was recently told "NO" on the request to be reimbursed were they not? Just another uninformed judge?
Possibly. That's why our founding fathers set up the judicial system with an extensive appeals process.


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Doc
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Posted - 03/11/2011 :  1:17:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

quote:
[i]Originally posted by Happy HarperValley Rez[/i]
[br]You just made me laugh out loud!!!
Thanks for bringing a chuckle to this obviously never ending ever spending appeals process...
I'm not really sure how I made you laugh. Please explain.
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Dannyboy
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Posted - 03/11/2011 :  1:59:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Two questions, and I'm not trying to start a battle with anyone:

-1- Is the coke plant going to go on-line before the next appeal is heard?

-2- Has an operational plant with full EPA support ever been shut down by the environmental appeals board and/or a court?
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John Beagle
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Posted - 03/11/2011 :  2:35:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit John Beagle's Homepage  Reply with Quote Report Abuse

Originally posted by Dannyboy
[br]Two questions, and I'm not trying to start a battle with anyone:

-1- Is the coke plant going to go on-line before the next appeal is heard? Yes

-2- Has an operational plant with full EPA support ever been shut down by the environmental appeals board and/or a court? Not sure but I would think, not likely.

"I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody" #BillCosby
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